In all likelihood, we'll be the first team knocked out tonight, but let us hope for a Stakhanovite resilience worthy of Derry, Mafeking and Verdun (of course a repeat of Paul McGrath v Italy wouldn't go amiss either). The one glimmer of hope is that all the legendary Irish results have been connected by the letter G - Gelsenkirchen, Genoa, Giants Stadium, Gdansk? For tonight to have any relevance, Ireland arguably need an Italian win this afternoon, as even a draw would render victory over Italy irrelevant.
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Ireland v Spain
I have the same green boxers I had on when Ireland drew 0-0 in Moscow. -
Ireland v Spain
The Siege(?) of Derry's hardly yer best parallel. Remember, last time ye battered our makeshift defence for three months and still couldn't score- even with Governor 'McClean' Lundy going over to the dark side early doors.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
Defensive fragility both in the air and on the deck, the inability to pass the ball or retain possession combined with a coach who thought picking a right-footed striker to play on the left of midfield would turn things round might scrape you a result against most international teams.
Croatia may well get a result against Italy tonight as they have the attacking quality to do some damage and the keeper looks the part.
But Spain are also rather good.
A draw would be a miracle.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
apparently simon cox is going to start tonight.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
I think it will be 0-0Comment
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Ireland v Spain
I wasn't impressed at Ireland's ability to cope with good movement, I think they might struggle to cope badly tonight. Then as Shak said, bring on Llorente and you have the aerial option.
You can quibble about systems and players that Ireland might or might not use, the thing is that systems are pretty irrelevant if your players are going to keep making unforced individual errors anyway. I'm sure that's the thing which will annoy the manager most.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
Is it worth Spain playing Llorente and Navas? Or does that make things easier for Ireland by playing in a slightly more "English" style?Comment
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Ireland v Spain
This isn't a position Trapattoni has often been in during his career. Coaching a team that has to play one that is much, much better.
The last time it happened to him was arguably when Bayern went to Ajax for the Champions League semi-final second leg in 1995. And Ajax wiped the floor with them.
It's worth pointing out that Ireland always acquited themselves well at tournaments. Progressed beyond the group stages three out of four times. And the time they didn't progress they were in it until the last minute. Now we are looking at being the first team to be knocked out. And Ireland never conceded more than two goals in any match at a tournament. We've already conceded three against Croatia.
Not sure how the fans will react if we get battered again. Especially if Trap doesn't do anything to fix the massive hole in the centre of midfield. edit: Well, I can forgive him if he doesn't manage to fix it. But denying it even exists or poses a problem is what annoys me.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
How can you do a direct comparison between the relative performances of Ireland now and Ireland 1988-2002 when you have a much, much weaker squad to play with? There's no way Trap can ever look good if that is your benchmark.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
I'm not using it as a benchmark, I'm just pointing it out. And I'm genuinely not sure how the fans will react.
I don't think there's much he can do to be honest, but doing something might help. It's the old saying about the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over again.
Whelan and Andrews in a two man centre midfield has failed us for a good 48 months now. He never even bothered to try anything else. This is why he has a problem now. The very time we need something else, there is no Plan B.
Bilic did his homework against Ireland. Double mark Duff and McGeady on the wings and don't bother about Whelan and Andrews in the centre. Seeing how Modric was allowed to do whatever he wanted all match long, I'm starting to wonder if Trap did his homework at all.
And I say this as somebody who has, up until this point, never once questioned the man.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
The notion that a man who is renown for his preparation might not have done his homework for easily his most important game for his Irish management is a bit spurious though, no?
Maybe he felt that if there was one game they could win it might be against Croatia and he went for that with a positive line up. Croatia are not quick anywhere, perhaps he thought the direct running from the wide men might unsettle them. Perhaps he might also think that Ireland cannot play a five man midfield effectively, just as few British national sides seem able to.
The bottom line from all of this might be just that the squad is pretty weak, the group is strong and no-one could manage them to bridge the gap to the other teams around them. If that's not the case we will need to see a whole lot more from them tonight and a big drop off in unforced, individual errors.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
The 1-0 victory against Italy in 1994, arguably Ireland's greatest ever moment in football, was achieved with a five man midfield that shut down Baggio and co. Granted, the five midfielders were Andy Townsend, Steve Staunton, Roy Keane, Ray Houghton and John Sheridan - all of which would walk into the current XI. Except perhaps for John Sheridan... he's not really a Trap type player.
Perhaps, as you say, he thought we could get away with a two man centre midfield against Croatia and went for the three points. It's plausible. If he does it again tonight, against possibly the greatest central midfield in the history of football, then questions really have to be asked. Seeing as he persisted with it for 90 minutes in Moscow when we were really taking a battering, you have to wonder.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
you don't get it dalliance. Trap is the limited one. This is an article by bryan kerr about how ireland used to beat spain around the place in underage competition in the late nineties. If you read down, the formula is three men in midfield, who are never outnumbered and have easy passing options. Then two wingers who drop back when we don't have the ball, but sprint up to support the lone frontman. when Ireland were attacking, two of the midfielders would push up in support of the striker, and we would play a high line. But in possession we would drop back
It's actually the tactics that jose mourinho would use 6 years later at porto and 8 years later at chelsea. Here is the line up from the u-20 world cup quarter final played in searing heat and humidity Only one irish name leaps out But a couple of the spaniards went on to become pretty famous.
All of that ireland squad bar duff and dunne wound up in the league of ireland. It's not about how limited or otherwise the players at your disposal are, it's what you make of them. This is where trap falls down.
Trap has two players who would be ideal to play in the lone targetman/bully/tireless fast runner, either of whom could easily expose pique and ramos given half a chance. He's not going to pick either of them. Instead he's going to start with our two slowest and least mobile forwards.
Robbie Keane is now so slow and out of touch at this level, and cox is just so slow, and.... unimpressive, that it is the equivalent of england picking shearer and sheringham now if they were facing spain. We're going to be playing spain with only 9 men. It's absolute fucking madness. Playing 4-4-2 like this will make duffer an auxilliary right back, and I simply don't know if that is the best use of his talents at this stage, or if it is going to work very well. Actually given how bad his system makes our wingers look when we don't have the ball, we're going to be playing them with 7 players.
If trap wasn't italian and famous, he'd be derided as a mike bassett figure. The infuriating thing is that Everyone in the country knows that we have to play three in midfield against spain. Half the country doesn't want robbie keane in the team, the other half love him and remember all of the goals, and want to keep him up front like a little jesus figurine on the dashboard of our footballing dreams, but even they are prepared to drop him so we can play another midfielder.
Huge numbers of irish fans watch spanish football every week. At this point I'd say the average Irish person has watched barcelona more often than trap, and watched more CL games. Enormous numbers watch premiership football, and watched those teams grind all before them into very bored dust for nearly a decade now.
This whole thing about players not being tactically sophisticated enough to follow instructions is a bit much. Jonathan walters was asked whether the Irish players would be able to switch to a different formation, and he said that it wouldn't be too much of a problem, as most players play in teams that change formation many times over the course of a game. He said that at stoke they will change formation five or six times in the course of a game depending on the context.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
Granted, the five midfielders were Andy Townsend, Steve Staunton, Roy Keane, Ray Houghton and John Sheridan - all of which would walk into the current XI. Except perhaps for John Sheridan... he's not really a Trap type player.
of course he is, he's 47 years old.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
The one glimmer of hope is that all the legendary Irish results have been connected by the letter G - Gelsenkirchen, Genoa, Giants Stadium, Gdansk?
You missed out "Garymackay" (winkey smiley thing)Comment
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Ireland v Spain
Ah yes, Garymackay.
And Goranstraveski, hmmm. And Gallas.
It seems that players beginning with G leave their mark on Ireland games. I note that no Spanish player has a first or last name beginning with G. Although there are probably multiple Garcias if you take their other last name into account.
Paul Green.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
torres starts for spain in place of fabregas.
trap still hasn't announced his team but speculation is it features cox on the left and mcgeady behind keane.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
oh holy mother of jesus. What fresh hell is this?Comment
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Ireland v Spain
On RTE website now:
Given, O'Shea, St.Ledger, Dunne, Ward, Duff, Whelan, Andrews, McGeady, Cox and Robbie Keane.
Hopefully it's a scam to fool the Spanish...Comment
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Ireland v Spain
"Robbie Keane". Clearly there's a Cork man updating the RTE website at the moment.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
Rumour is Robbie Keane up front by himself (because he is so good at heading the ball?) and Cox in midfield.
So does that mean Cox on the wing and Duff in the middle? We shall see.Comment
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Ireland v Spain
I've asked on the other thread but will repeat, is a draw here (no, don't laugh!) the best result for Italy?Comment
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Ireland v Spain
From Guardian online:
Teams:
The Champions: Casillas; Arbeloa, Ramos, Pique, Alba; Alonso, Busquets, Silva, Xavi, Iniesta; Torres
The Challengers: Given; O'Shea, Dunne, St Ledger, Ward; Duff, Andrews, Whelan, McGeady; Cox; KeaneComment
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