Russia sticking their OARs in: Winter Olympics 2018

[Lang Spoon]

Eishockey is the second most popular sport in Germany, isn’t it?

Not sure why it continues to struggle in the UK. There’s obviously some interest. Just not enough rinks?

Yeah, that must be part of it. Certainly not enough big rinks. My town is an outlier in that the ice hockey takes in a bigger crowd than the local fitba league team. But they are in the the “elite” league despite having a 3 thousand capacity fairly primitive rink. But my town has the oldest pro team in the UK. It seems to have done well enough in say Belfast or even Glasgow (which never used to have a team unlike say Edinburgh) but it lacks roots or kids wanting to skate on most parts (I think the league has had a load of bankrupt franchises).

[Hot Pepsi]

It’s a catch-22. There won’t be many rinks until there’s interest and there won’t be much interest until there’s access to facilities. In North America, that passion was built on outdoor rinks and ponds, and that still is the case in some places, which creates enough support to build nicer facilities in those areas, and also created the NHL which then spread interest in hockey to places where outdoor ice wasn’t usually available, which led to interest in playing, which led to building more rinks.

But outdoor ice isn’t available in most of the UK and the pro game isn’t compelling enough to get all that many people excited the way NHL teams have created interest in hockey in parts of North America without natural ice.

Public funding for boondoggle arenas helped too. Also, fans in North America are used to the idea that there are just a limited number of top-level teams in big fancy arenas in the big cities, with no relegation, and so if you aren’t wealthy and/or live in that city, you support the closest one via TV, radio, and maybe a few special trips to see them live.

That’s not the sports culture in the UK. The other sports - football especially - have so much tradition and culture whereas, I suspect, hockey feels like an import and, especially if teams keep going under and leagues come and go, it’s hard to get attached.

[Lang Spoon]

It was once all very popular at least in parts of Britain. So Fife Flyers have been playing in the same shabby quaint deco rink since the 30s when it was big news. It has at least survived in pockets and had some revivals. Baseball in the UK also had some following by all accounts, gone by the post-war period. Not a chance of that coming back.

[Hot Pepsi]

It was once all very popular at least in parts of Britain. So Fife Flyers have been playing in the same shabby quaint deco rink since the 30s when it was big news. It has at least survived in pockets and had some revivals. Baseball in the UK also had some following by all accounts, gone by the post-war period. Not a chance of that coming back.

As football, rugby, tennis, motorsports, and, perhaps, cricket have become shinier, more glamorous, and more TV-friendly, it’s harder for regional sports to keep up.

[Lang Spoon]

But UK basketball seems to be doing ok as a niche sport, probably cos kids play it just about everywhere thats at least semi urban. The Glasgow basketball team can play to over 6000 (not far off the rugby) ice hockey less than 4.

[Hot Pepsi]

Yes, and basketball is bigger worldwide, so perhaps a lot more immigrants are into it. It’s also more accessible to the new fan. Lots of people have trouble following the puck the first time they watch hockey.

It’s also possible that there are no important underlying geographical or cultural variables and the basketball team owners are just better at promoting their league and managing their budgets.

Certainly, the relative success of various sports in the US can be largely, though not entirely, attributed to historical accidents, specific business decisions, the vision of specific individuals, rather than anything about the zeitgeist or the “American character.”

[Cal Alamein]

Helluva Men's Hockey Final.

[ad hoc]

It was once all very popular at least in parts of Britain. So Fife Flyers have been playing in the same shabby quaint deco rink since the 30s when it was big news. It has at least survived in pockets and had some revivals. Baseball in the UK also had some following by all accounts, gone by the post-war period. Not a chance of that coming back.

I think it is still regionally popular as far as I can tell. Reading the Sheffield press, the news about the ice hockey team seems to be the most prominent after the football (at least during the season) in the sports pages. Like Fife that's a well established and successful team. But nationally ice hockey gets virtually no coverage

[Snake Plissken]

That is because hockey in the UK is run (deliberately) on Premier League lines and with the same level of a) competence and b) care for the wider health of the game in the UK. In the late 90s, the Super League (as was) was playing to crowds of 6-12,000 and full rinks of 3,000 in Ayr, Cardiff and Nottingham. The problem was, as it usually is, that Sheffield stopped winning. They were the first Arena team and so hoovered up all the trophies with throwing money around, but couldn't hack it when other teams came along with Arenas (or in Ayr and Bracknells case, did them by smarter recruiting). So they started an arms race they couldn't afford, knowing that they would likely find another backer while other clubs who went to the wall would not. The Grand Sham season, where the wage cap was set to £500,000 for the season, saw Sheffield spend at least £750,000 by the end of January, and that was the money the league knew about. Then they went bust. And two seasons later... did it again, this time going bust by February. It's a pattern set by the same guy at the top of the club, who magically manages to stay there through countless owners. I would say something about his character and integrity, but I'd have to run it through my lawyers first.

There are three clubs that matter, Sheffield, Nottingham and Belfast. The rest are cannon fodder. Deliberately so. When the smaller rink teams (Manchester, Basingstoke) decamped to the cheaper - and more competitive - EPL, the big three started subsidising other clubs - or just simply starting up more franchises (Braehead). There is some murky stuff around rink operators suddenly demanding that EPL teams move to the Elite League (MK, Guildford) or kick out the existing EPL team and get a pre-built EIHL franchise in its place (hello, Manchester).

I am fantastically bitter about UK hockey, having poured my heart into it for a decade and a half as a fan and working for a club. One of the final straws was the first year of the Elite League. 11 import limit, wage cap set at £250,000. Sheffield and Nottingham found to bust the wage limit on their way to winning everything, so the league punished them by reducing their available import quota to 10.

So the next season, they had 10 imports... who cost even more. So the League... dropped the pretence of wage caps. And the current import limit, which helps the big budget clubs and penalises those with British players? 14.

[Various Artist]

God, I didn't realise quite how outrageous the system is now, Snake. It's fair to say that I haven't paid a lot of attention since the sport had what seemed to be its big but rather brief boom in the late '80s and early '90s. Growing up near Cardiff, the Western Mail was always full of stuff about the Devils during their rise under John Lawless, with the arrival of great players like Doug McEwen and the triumvirate of Steve Moria (who signed from Fife Flyers) and Ian and Steve Cooper (who both signed from Durham Wasps) signalling a power shift of sorts at the top of the game in those days. Cardiff – and, it felt, the sport in this country – peaked with 1990's phenomenally exciting comeback-then-shootout championship win over Murrayfield Racers, live on Grandstand (!), and it was all sort of downhill from there.

[anton pulisov]

Sweden has won gold in the women's Curling.

I was curious as to how one of the curlers has the surname McManus. Turns out she is the daughter of a man who could aptly be described as the textbook definition of a journeyman footballer.

[Lang Spoon]

Got lost in a wiki hole with British Ice Hockey. Fuck it seems chaotic and suspiciously managed. Teams and leagues appearing and disappearing just like that.

[Doraemon]

Wow, that squirrel nearly came to a sticky end. Now that would have been bad luck both for the snowboarder and the squirrel.

The question that has been on my mind the last few days is in regard to the half pipe thing. Are those tracks common in ski resorts? There obviously must be enough of them to get enough competitors for a competition. What is underneath the snow? You must be pretty capable to be able to keep getting up to the top each time, but how do you get that good. Are there smaller sizes, that you work through first?

[Furtho]

Telegraph piece on perceived poor results achieved by the British bobsleigh teams, here.

“Major questions will now be asked of the £5 million invested in the sport in the years leading up to these Pyeongchang Games, especially considering they could not even find the money to cover the women’s programme due to financial mismanagement.

“The poor Olympic performance caps a disastrous year for the British bobsleigh set-up, which has lurched from one crisis to another. Last summer a host of athletes complained of ‘bullying, racism, sexism and discrimination’ from their superiors in the camp, with three senior leaders leaving their roles over the next few months.

“The British women’s pair of Mica McNeill and Mica Moore then had all their money axed and only made it to Pyeongchang after crowdfunding more than £40,000.”

It’s interesting to note that it was the women’s pair who actually achieved the best result of any of the British teams.

[Furtho]

A few Guardian pieces from last year on the situation in British bobsleigh.

One from June on accusations by athletes of racism and sexism by coaching and management staff is here. A follow-up piece from June saying athletes were told they would jeopardise their chances of getting into the Olympic team if they spoke publicly about these issues is here. A piece from September about funding cuts and the departure of three senior members of staff is here.

[Hot Pepsi]

That’s what I suspected about UK hockey - it’s just poorly managed and it alienates fans far more often then it can afford to for a sport still trying to establish roots.

This is why MLS is the way MLS is.

[Hot Pepsi]

Wow, that squirrel nearly came to a sticky end. Now that would have been bad luck both for the snowboarder and the squirrel.

The question that has been on my mind the last few days is in regard to the half pipe thing. Are those tracks common in ski resorts? There obviously must be enough of them to get enough competitors for a competition. What is underneath the snow? You must be pretty capable to be able to keep getting up to the top each time, but how do you get that good. Are there smaller sizes, that you work through first?

There is a special machine that makes the half-pipe wall the right shape and many big ski places have them. I don’t know if there are smaller ones but riders can practice their tricks on quarter pipe ramps, I suppose.

How it’s made:
https://youtu.be/6b5nmYgKic4
https://youtu.be/kJmccA5SZi4

How to do it:
https://youtu.be/bstxPUeRE5k
https://youtu.be/r_-DBu72-ns

[Snake Plissken]

That’s what I suspected about UK hockey - it’s just poorly managed and it alienates fans far more often then it can afford to for a sport still trying to establish roots.

The roots have been established for years. GB won Olympic gold in 1936 and - more relevantly, in the early nineties, was booming. Not only did you have traditional sides like Streatham, Durham, Whitley, Fife, Murrayfield and Nottingham playing to full houses, but the rash of new rinks post Torvill and Dean meant that there were teams in decent facilities like Cardiff, Bracknell, Basingstoke, Milton Keynes, Blackburn, Humberside.

The quality wasn't good, but the sport regularly played to attendances of 2 or 3,000 per rink, per weekend. Fife/Murrayfield, Durham/Whitley ,even Bracknell/Basingstoke. These were guaranteed sellouts with tickets like gold dust.

Then along came Sheffield. Who basically took the existing Solihull Barons with them, gutting that club. They played out of Sheffield Arena, which was at the time the only Arena. They were getting full houses too, smart marketing, US style razzmatazz. But even in the first season, the template was set - they had an ineligible player but got away with it. Then two things happen... Bosman and a couple more Arenas begin to come online. Newcastle and Manchester. Newcastle just in time for Sir John Hall, so he takes the Durham Wasps and moves them to the Arena. The old Heineken League takes one look at Sheffield and the money they are throwing around and brings in a wage cap. The season finishes with Cardiff, Sheffield, Murrayfield and Nottingham as the top four. Four teams who are subsequently shown to have broken the wage cap. Sheffield two for two on breaking the rules each season.

Obviously we can't be having the rubbish old BIHA telling these Arena team - sorry teams - what to do, so off we go into the SuperLeague era where the clubs break away and run their own league. Meanwhile Manchester need a tenant for their large arena, a little less controversial this as they take the Trafford Metros out of the old Altrincham rink, pretty much because they had to if they wanted a team in the city. In Scotland, Bill Barr built a rink in Ayr. We hit the Boom Time. All that Durham, Whitley, Fife, Streatham stuff is left behind.

As are British players and the concept of player development. Just as we reap a crop of talented youngsters to replace the Coopers.

Into Superleague and suddenly we have a problem. Sheffield aren't winning any more. A string of bad decisions allied to money from Barr and the others mean the Steelers are back in the pack. This Will Not Do. We need a wage cap, pronto and this time we promise to stick to it. Cross our hearts and hope to die.

In it comes. The biggest spenders are hobbled. Surely this is the opportunity... but in Bracknell, Dave Whistle performs an absolute miracle and shows that in an age of supposed parity, even the smallest rink team can be smart enough to win the league. This Was Not The Plan.

It's OK, Belfast are starting up. Another Arena team. They need some advice on how to do it. Here is an idea... that Bracknell side look pretty good. And they'll be on low wages so... why not take their coach and half of them? And while we're at it, we've got a new owner willing to throw lots of money at the team, Darren Brown. Ask a Chesterfield FC fan about him. Amazing how that all went on and huge sums went into the club without the guy at the top knowing about it...

Here endeth the story of British hockey, 1990-2001. It has a happy ending though, with them going off into the sunset to form another league, one where in its existence, four teams share 40 out of 46 trophies. (Or five, share 45 out of 46.) At last, our hero can be happy with guaranteed success.

[Hot Pepsi]

Sounds a bit like the NASL

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

There's a whole sub-story here around ice hockey in NE England, which I've spoken about on here before. In the pre arena era Durham and Whitley (Bay) were both well supported and well covered by the local media. Then as noted above John Hall bought Durham Wasps for his Newcastle sporting club bullshit and moved them to Newcastle Arena. They then went through many changes of name and numerous owners before the arena got sick of them getting in the way of more lucrative music and light entertainment bookings, hiked the rent and forced them out, and they ended up at Whitley Bay.

This had a galvanising effect on the ice hockey community of the north east. In Durham they were still pissed off that their team had been taken, in Newcastle they were pissed off that their team had been banished to the coast, and in Whitley Bay they were pissed off that another team were taking the spotlight off theirs. it didn't last, and now the NE has been without elite level representation for a number of years, having previously been seen as a relative hotbed of the sport.

[Lang Spoon]

Getting a madelaine moment at the mention of Murrayfield. Never hit a rink to skate till 9 or 10 myself, and have never seen the Flyers live, but some hockey kids in P4 had a chant of “Tony Hand, Wank Wank Wank” they kept going in the playground long after this b-list Canadian at Murrayfield Racers was forgotten elsewhere.

[Lang Spoon]

Having four of 12 elite league teams being Scottish, yet none of those having a chance of winning fuck all, why will the fans keep turning up unless the “conference” wins as consolations before you get hammered in the finals are seen as enough. Maybe grand for obvious small fry like the Flyers, but Braehead fans must be a lot more fickle having barely existed a wet week.

A Scottish/mibees NE England league would seem to make sense in terms of traveling support and the like. But no monetizing in that small time stuff.

[Hot Pepsi]

Capitalism ruins everything.

[Lang Spoon]

Bill Barr and cuntyness (and countless boring, identikit Mecanno and prefab cladding Scottish fitba stands post Taylor, and the far better if you can’t see the half arsed finish in corridors etc close up Celtic Park), like a horse and carriage. Fucker owns Ayr Utd football team, their ground is charming and terrace filled, but mostly due to his lack of investment. Probably waiting for the magic tesco site redevelopment proposal that never comes.

[ursus arctos]

This is all extremely interesting, especially as the German League has struggled with the same kind of split between “Arena” teams and the more traditional clubs. In the last decade, arena teams in Munich, Frankfurt and Hamburg have all gone bust, but there are also traditional clubs in Berlin and Mannheim that have successfully transitioned to arenas (and Red Bull have gone into Munich). The fact that German sport takes financial regulation more seriously almost certainly plays a role here.

Also worth reminding everyone that the NHL only exists because boxing promoters who owned major US arenas needed to fill their facilities when the fights weren’t on.