Muhammad Ali v Ken Burns

[gt3]

So Ken Burns has done a four part documentary on Ali which is available on PBS in America. Does anyone know how those of us in Europe can stream it? The PBS website is saying it is isn't available...

[Gangster Octopus]

It'll appear eventually on Freeview channel 91.

[EIM]

Ali would have won, no question.

[ursus arctos]

Might still win, actually

[Amor de Cosmos]

We watched the first episode last night. It is up to Ken Burns usual standard, though seems to have more talking heads than usual. It goes through most of his pre-Liston pro fights in some depth I knew nothing about his pre-Cooper match with Doug Jones, for instance, then rated as the #2 contender I think. Clay won on points, but a number of people thought the fix was in and you can see why based on the footage. His relationship with Malcolm X and the Black Muslims is covered in detail, and began a lot earlier than I realised. The rest of the series is a much watch for me.

[gt3]

It'll appear eventually on Freeview channel 91.

Cheers GO

[Satchmo Distel]

I'm not sure if there's anything new we can learn about Ali. It's one of the most documented lives ever, at least in his peak years (1964-75), after which it becomes a tale of medical decline, albeit borne with great courage and fortitude. The footage will probably confirm he was a better boxer before the layoff than after, but that was also Ali's own opinion (60s Ali would beat 70s Ali). The book by Thomas Hauser (1992) remains definitive AFAIK.

[Amor de Cosmos]

I dunno. I've never been a boxing fan particularly, but it was more widely covered on TV than football when I was a kid. So I was kinda familiar by osmosis. Still there was a lot I didn't know. Like the syndicate of white Louisville businessmen who financed his career from turning pro, up until losing his boxing license. They paid him a regular salary, and more importantly, kept him away from the clutches of the mob. Also, and this is just my perception after marrying into a family of dyslexics, everything he did was entirely intuitive. His boxing moves, his understanding of how media worked (nobody, and I really mean nobody, in any field matched him at this.) His failures at school, and his original 4F from the army, were more advantageous to his development as an individual that anything else. Because of them he knew who he was, and what he was capable of from a very early age. And he learned to play those attributes, in the ring and out, superbly.

[Sits]

Great post Amor.

Remembering my primary school playground (71-75) his name and catchphrase must have been more regularly uttered than any footballer of the time, with George Best (“Georgie” invariably) coming in second. I assume Ali was the most famous person in the world at that time. Imagine any boxer in the 21st century achieving that kind of profile.

[multipleman78]

I hope this documentary addresses the myth that has built up about the Rumble in the Jungle. The narrative, pushed heavily in When We Were Kings, is that Ali used the rope a dope from round 2 onwards and took a frightening beating to tire Foreman out.

Ali did use the ropes to allow Foreman to punch himself out but he is always active. Ali wins almost every round of that fight easily. Foreman is tired very quickly and is picked apart.

I thought Ali used the rope a dope to a greater extent in the Thrilla in Manila. In the middle rounds he lays back and allows Joe Frazier to hook away at him. Then in the later rounds he springs back to life and finally stops a wilting Frazier at the end of 14. Ali's toughness in that fight should never be underestimated.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Any excuse to put up this televisual time capsule:

Muhammad Ali in Newcastle (1977) - YouTube

[wingco]

I think I know most of what there is to know about Ali, not a boast but a confession of obsession but will certainly watch this.

[diggedy derek]

I hope this documentary addresses the myth that has built up about the Rumble in the Jungle.

There's a great video out there by the peerless Lee Wylie which is breaks down the fight in a really interesting way. His main thesis is that Foreman was expert at catching or parrying his opponents' jabs, so Ali used straight rights and long hooks to get around his guard. Ali landed some enormous shots early on in the fight.

[wingco]

The impudent right hand leads in round one.

[diggedy derek]

It's mad isn't it. Foreman is the most feared fighter in the world, and Ali just steps to him and throws massive shots.

[gt3]

There's a great video out there by the peerless Lee Wylie which is breaks down the fight in a really interesting way. His main thesis is that Foreman was expert at catching or parrying his opponents' jabs, so Ali used straight rights and long hooks to get around his guard. Ali landed some enormous shots early on in the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1_JW3wnrik

[Gangster Octopus]

gt3 It's on BBC2 from Sunday.

[gt3]

Cheers Gangster Octopus Just going back over this thread, and yes, @Satchmo, the Hauser book is fantastic. The wingco lent me his signed copy many years ago. Very looking forward to the film. May have to watch the two Foreman mights beforehand.

[Discordant Resonance]

Surprising episode one never mentioned the famous story about him throwing his gold medal into the Louisville River - unless that's an urban myth?

[ursus arctos]

Widely thought to be untrue

[multipleman78]

I am working my way through this. As stated by others, there is not much we don't know about Ali that this series can shed light on. However, I was unaware that Frazier was in such a bad state after their first fight that he basically disappeared for 10 days.

I suppose defeating the greatest should take its toll but I was led to believe Frazier had won the first fight with a bit to spare.