Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

[George]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Whilst the likes of The Doors have seen their standing crash through the floor The Carpenters appear to have seen an upsurge in their reputation in recent years. There should be a stock market type index where the fluctuating fortunes of these 'classic' acts can be measured.

I would dearly love the old rumour (usually attributed to Rick Wakeman or Peter Frampton) that Karen pulled a few strings at A&M to get the Sex Pistols booted from the label after only several days to be true.

[slackster]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

I've never heard that one about Karen C and A&M/Sex Pistols, but like all good myths it sounds like it should be true. I will be repeating it now to help propagate it amongst the truther community.

[Mumpo]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Re. Dancing Queen, I read this refreshing perspective on the song on another message board recently:

"It's not really the sound of someone having the time of their li-i-ives is it, it's the sound of someone having a miserable time at some low rent shithole and putting a front on. There's nothing exuberant and life-affirming about the sound of 'Dancing Queen' like there is with, say, 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough'. It's more the sound of the fag end of the night where everyone's copped off and gone home except for a few drunk and lonely stragglers"

I think it's in the rhythm, the drumming. It's that intermittent hiss on the closed high hat, that transforms the song from a disco anthem to a real laboured, licentious slouch.

[Ray de Galles]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Dyskoteka morze szanty wrote:

I think what Bored is essentially saying is that he just doesn't like Jon Lord. I wouldn't call this a controversial opinion.

Only the first of many reasons why Jon Lord is supercool.

As a sidebar, when Tim Minchin chose a Deep Purple song on Desert Island Discs the other day he was the first person EVER to do so. What kind of world do we live in?

[Ray de Galles]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Big Audio Dynamite were approximately 743 times the band The Clash were.

In related news, Joe Strummer seemed like one of the most deeply tedious figures in popular music of the last forty years or so.

[diabloinglés]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Biggie Smalls is better than Tupac.
In fact Tupac is waaaaay overrated

They were overrated dross, the pair of them.

[Bored Of Education]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

"It's not really the sound of someone having the time of their li-i-ives is it, it's the sound of someone having a miserable time at some low rent shithole and putting a front on. There's nothing exuberant and life-affirming about the sound of 'Dancing Queen' like there is with, say, 'Don't Stop Til You Get Enough'. It's more the sound of the fag end of the night where everyone's copped off and gone home except for a few drunk and lonely stragglers"

Oh, that is "I will Survive" surely?

[Cal Alamein]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Motorhead's bass player fucked one of my girlfriends once, then gave her £10 for her 'taxi fair home'.

Sorry, not relevant I know, but I'm still bitter.

Odd to read the words "Motorhead's bass player" - kinda like reading "Van Halen's guitarist."

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

The overwhelming majority of these are not unpopular opinions.

[Wyatt Earp]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

I know, man. I don't get this thread, mostly.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Me neither. "Unpopular" with whom?

[Wyatt Earp]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Many of the opinions on this thread are decidedly unpopular with me, I must admit.

[Bruno]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

I did my best.

[Wyatt Earp]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

I think yours is one of the, what's the word, chewier ones, actually; it could form the basis of a decent discussion.

[Reed John]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

No that's just wrong. Between 1957 and 1962 no one in popular music came close to the dominance of Elvis. Go check the charts and look at the films and photos. Not only were his record sales massive internationally but just about every white male performer between the ages of 15 and 25 tried to look and sound like him. Only the Beatles — and even that is debatable — have ever had the same type of generational reach. From this distance we can see that Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly had greater long-term influence, in part because they were songwriters, but no one would have claimed that when they were having hits. Elvis really was the King.

Perhaps my choice of term "dominated" is wrong, because as you point out, both the Beatles and Elvis did own the charts for a while. But when we look back and ask "what was the most interesting stuff emerging in that era?" both the Beatles and Elvis would have to make some room for other artists. That's what I meant.

I stand by my assertion that rock and roll needs no king. And if we're going to have a king, it should be Hendrix.

But in that respect, the Sex Pistols don't fit in with Elvis and The Beatles. My understanding is that they were neither all over the charts nor were they the massive culture bomb that somebody like me might like to believe. Not in the US, at least.

"You Light Up My Life" was #1. My web research shows that Never Mind the Bollocks did not make the top 100 albums chart. It did make the top five critics picks in Rolling Stone but not the top 5 in the Readers Poll. It would appear that Nirvana was a bigger deal in their time, in terms of blowing up the rock industry, than the Sex Pistols.

[Bored Of Education]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

I think yours is one of the, what's the word, chewier ones, actually; it could form the basis of a decent discussion.

His Rush one? I assumed that everyone took that as fact and moved on.

[Reed John]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Others:

Joe Strummer is one of my favorite rock figures of all time. I enjoy his interviews. The Clash is one of my favorite all time bands even though I only really like about 1/3 of their songs.

The Doors is college poetry wank, BUT, some of that wank is pretty cool in the same way that watching Highlander or Conan the Barbarian at 2 am while drunk is awesome. Break on Through is their best, I think. The organ bit.

And then there's this:

Led Zeppelin has to be appreciated in a similar "don't take it all too seriously" sort of way, although I'd rate LZ higher than the Doors in terms of overall output and general kickassness.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Perhaps my choice of term "dominated" is wrong, because as you point out, both the Beatles and Elvis did own the charts for a while. But when we look back and ask "what was the most interesting stuff emerging in that era?" both the Beatles and Elvis would have to make some room for other artists. That's what I meant.

Wouldn't argue with that for one second.

In fact, my contribution to this threads topic would be something along the lines of:

Nothing really significant has happened in rock music since Joe Turner recorded Shake, Rattle and Roll. Nor is it likely to.

[Bruno]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Mykolai on Earth wrote:

I think yours is one of the, what's the word, chewier ones, actually; it could form the basis of a decent discussion.

Assuming you mean the 'classical' one. I dunno. What would the terms be? What I really think is that good pop/rock is good pop/rock, and good classical is good classical, and there's some overlap here and there, and I gravitate toward the latter for reasons not entirely plain to me, but that involve what I'm able to take seriously
(being at heart a serious sort of boy).

[Wyatt Earp]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Well, one thing we might explore is the sense in which classical music has more repleteness to it: pop music can be a musically flimsy thing by comparison. The question being how much this matters, I guess.

[Renart]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Not surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with G.Man on this thread. I have a problem with Elvis as "King," too, but it actually strikes me as less absurd than the often-heard claim/marketing slogan that the Rolling Stones are "the greatest rock and roll band in the world." I'm not even convinced they're the greatest rock and roll band from Kent. I like some of the music and songs, but Mick Jagger is far too often a minstrel show-ish buffoon.

Also, not liking The Doors seems to be the orthodox position among the hipsterish musician and record collector set, in the U.S. at least. I can see many reasons why people wouldn't like them, but I do (for the most part).

[Stumpy Pepys]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Renart wrote:

Also, not liking The Doors seems to be the orthodox position among the hipsterish musician and record collector set, in the U.S. at least. I can see many reasons why people wouldn't like them, but I do (for the most part).

Yeah, they made three very good albums.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

The Doors is college poetry wank,

A considerable amount of pop music falls into that category.

OK here comes another unpopular opinion then:

From a performance standpoint Jim Morrison was one of the four or five most influential lead singers of all time.

[Bruno]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Well, one thing we might explore is the sense in which classical music has more repleteness to it: pop music can be a musically flimsy thing by comparison. The question being how much this matters, I guess.

It matters to me in as much as I tend to get bored with music that rides along the surface, so to speak. That can of course be rescued by good lyrics, but those are often enough wanting as well. The interaction between text and music offers an infinitude of artistic possibilities, and I would say (roughly speaking) that pop music doesn't explore enough of those, or as profoundly or provocatively as it could.

But to me 'classical' music is more or less distinct for its stance on 'the music itself' - the manipulation of or control over the notes, how they're combined, and perhaps above all, rhythm. Pop music is almost never rhythmically interesting (compared to, say, Beethoven or Brahms, who do extremely interesting and subtle things with rhythm and meter). I'm pretty interested in and have spent a fair amount of time trying to write about the temporal dimension of music.

[Renart]

Potentially unpopular opinions that you hold true

Amor de Cosmos wrote:

From a performance standpoint Jim Morrison was one of the four or five most influential lead singers of all time.

Hard to say, but it seems possible. (The Doors' influence on Joy Division seems obvious, but most JD fans I know don't like to acknowledge it. And of course Joy Division has been very influential.)

But "influential" doesn't always mean it was a good influence. Eddie Vedder's vocals were influential, too, and I hate his and his imitators' voices. On the other hand, I love Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder, but many of the people who attempt to emulate them sound awful.