Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

You guys remind my of this:

Glenn Beck Attacks Bruce Springsteen (youtube link)

(sorry, most of you in the role as Glenn Beck)

and btw, Springsteen was one of the first artist to stand up for the vietnam vets.. bootlegs as far back as 78` confirms this. He also did maybe the most important concert for the vietnam vets in 1981.

Here is Ron Kovic talking about it

Ron Kovic Speaking About Springsteen At the Kennedy Center Honors (youtube)

[WOM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Born In The USA was far more understandable when heard in its original style; not the anthemic album/concert song that was released. As written, and (much) later played live, it was very slow and very angry.

If you want to hear it, the version on 18 Tracks is closest, and the version on Live In New York City will send a massive chill up your spine.

[RobM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Worn Old Motorbike wrote:

Born In The USA was far more understandable when heard in its original style; not the anthemic album/concert song that was released. As written, and (much) later played live, it was very slow and very angry.

If you want to hear it, the version on 18 Tracks is closest, and the version on Live In New York City will send a massive chill up your spine.

The 18 tracks is the better but yup, no possibility of misconstuing the song in it's accoustic form.

[bovril]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

which of course leads us back to the discussion.
the song had been around since the Nebraska sessions in 81/82. why not release the stark/acoustic version as part of Nebraska - rather than holding on to it for the next album?
I have read some where that the only reason why Bruce got away with releasing Nebraska (hardly the most commercial album) was because he and his management promised CBS a commercial release next - they even had the songs to convince CBS in the bag already, they just shelved them for a couple of years 'cos Bruce wanted his Nebraska songs to be heard - rather than hidden next to the commercial rockers that he knew would be played on radio instead of the misery-fest that are the Nebraska songs.

[WOM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Bruce overwrites massively. He wrote over 70 songs for Darkness on the Edge of Town; most of which were finally just released on The Promise. He releases what he thinks works on a specific album.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

You got to remember that Bruce had not had a big hit before Born In The USA, and he always wanted to have that. His biggest hit was Hungry Heart peaking at #9 or something in 1980. Nebraska, the demo tape from his kitchen, was almost a commercial suicide deliberately so, out in 82. Born in the USA was four years after Hungry Heart, so how could they have known that this would be a big hit? History can be blinding.

[Wyatt Earp]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

RobM wrote:

I mention it because Earle's been held up earlier in the thread as an example of what Springsteen isn't and could be.

Well, no, he wasn't really, Rob. I'm more or less on your side in this debate, though Springsteen generally gives me the giggles or the yawns. I only mentioned Earle as an example of someone who, like Springsteen, combines a left-wing stance with a particular form of American patriotism (with a working-class focus).

Though I'm somewhat astonished to learn about the use of that Earle song in an ad. Mind, I shouldn't be; after all, the "Mercedes Benz" one was even more blatant. Capitalism is incredibly acquisitive and opportunist, isn't it? I think it's going to take a lot of beating.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Steve Earle has nothing on Springsteen. And Earle would be the first to say so.

[Etienne]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Lucia, US radio is not exactly the same as UK radio in all sorts of ways, and Bruce Springsteen is not going to be interpreted the same way by a US audience as a UK audience all (or even most) of the time.

I'm also not sure what malign effect Born... is supposed to have had, or what might have been different if he'd recorded the original version or a strident anti-Reagan song. I mean, the Dixie Chicks (a massively popular act) took a very public anti-Bush stance vocally and musically. Don't think it had much impact - though happy to hear that it did.

[WOM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Jens Wildman wrote:

His biggest hit was Hungry Heart peaking at #9 or something in 1980.

Which he wrote to give to The Ramones. Jon Landau was like "are you nuts...this is your hit".

[WOM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Etienne wrote:

I'm also not sure what malign effect Born... is supposed to have had, or what might have been different if he'd recorded the original version or a strident anti-Reagan song.

I'm not sure that BITUSA was an anti-Reagan song at all. It was a critique of what America promises vs what it delivers. Reagan only entered into the picture when he tried to use it as a rah-rah campaign song and Bruce told him to stop.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Not to mention that he gave away "Becouse the night" to Patti Smith, her biggest hit - reached #8, and that he gave "Fire" to Pointer sisters that peaked at #2.

[Etienne]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

No, I don't think it was. I think it was just another "life's tough for the American man" song. I was saying I'm not sure what would have been different had he written A Stand Down Reagan song, as Wingco says he should.

[Wyatt Earp]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Jens Wildman wrote:

Steve Earle has nothing on Springsteen. And Earle would be the first to say so.

Ah, OK.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Back then Springsteen did not have a public voice like he does now. He let his music do the talking. He has said that the power in the ref. was supposed to sound frustrated. He also said "that he sort of lost him self" on that tour and the image.. so he went of to follow up with Tunnel of Love, with lines like:

"God have mercy on the man
Who doubts what he's sure of"

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Yes! He said so himself.. So.. uh!

[Amor de Cosmos]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

This

Wingco, fair enough about your experiences with the song, but
a) either they are atypical compared to how most of its American audience would have heard it (which I think is more likely)

and this:

to my ears most Springsteen music is either bombastic rock too bitty to do the business, or rather flat strumminess.

They're linked I think. The Born to Run period when Springsteen emerged as a major star — cover of Time and all that bollocks — coincided with the first stirrings of punk in the UK. An indication that audience sensibilities were beginning to run in quite different directions. Born to Run is as consummately about being young in America at that time as London's Burning is about being young in Britain.

Bombastic and romantic? Of course. Born to Run was for kids in muscle cars and custom vans. There were no Winters of Discontent in the US at that time, the recession and factory closings were a few years away. As an album it set the tone for musical culture over the next few years and it was wildly different from that of the UK., where after, the hubbub died down, Springsteen tended to be for Americanophiles only.

Until Born in the USA that is. Personally it's an album I don't like much, and it's indicative that most of Sprinsteen's critics on this thread have cited it as a source. However my dislike is mainly because it has a "we have to make some serious money" vibe to it, rather than any so called jingoism, which, again to my knowledge was never the way it was read over here. The shortage of cash though was true, and forgivable, nonetheless it meant reworking old themes to the point of lifelessness. Since then he has rather lost his way, at least in terms of albums. Though he gave us maybe half a dozen out of the very top drawer, which ain't so bad. He's also still capable of writing the odd song which captures something of the time in a way no one else has. The Rising is the finest musical response to 9/11 I've yet heard, and Devils and Dust a cogent response to the invasion of Iraq.

These days he spends far too much time talking about his past work. Which is not a good sign in my view. However he may yet surprise us. He's done it before.

[RobM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Why on Earth... wrote:

RobM wrote:

I mention it because Earle's been held up earlier in the thread as an example of what Springsteen isn't and could be.

Well, no, he wasn't really, Rob. I'm more or less on your side in this debate, though Springsteen generally gives me the giggles or the yawns. I only mentioned Earle as an example of someone who, like Springsteen, combines a left-wing stance with a particular form of American patriotism (with a working-class focus).

Though I'm somewhat astonished to learn about the use of that Earle song in an ad. Mind, I shouldn't be; after all, the "Mercedes Benz" one was even more blatant. Capitalism is incredibly acquisitive and opportunist, isn't it? I think it's going to take a lot of beating.

Apologies WoE, didn't look back on the original post carefully enough, wasn't aimed as a pop but laziness on my part.

I like both Springsteen and Earle (and indeed Dylan and Young) but I'm a bit cynical about the whole wealthy rock star socialist thing. Know what you mean about Springsteen inducing the yucks though, Young's written some absolutely clunking lyrics over the year as well.

[RobM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Jens Wildman wrote:

Steve Earle has nothing on Springsteen. And Earle would be the first to say so.

Can only talk about personal prefence but Earle since Transcendental Blues is the equal and often the superior to Springsteen for me.

I suspect you've come here through a google search or similar Jens and feel a loyalty to Bruce. I don't really feel that way about most artists these days - take the music for what it is but don't idolise them myself.

[Wyatt Earp]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Jens Wildman wrote:

Yes! He said so himself.. So.. uh!

I'm allowed to disagree though, presumably.

He had a go at doing Springsteen, with the whole Copperhead Road thing. Didn't pull it off, really. That may be what he's referring to.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Just got bored for an hour.. needed to balance things out. It is after all the Internet.

[Guest]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

"I'm allowed to disagree though, presumably.

He had a go at doing Springsteen, with the whole Copperhead Road thing. Didn't pull it off, really. That may be what he's referring to."

Nah.. just made it up. Just like most of the messages in this thread are.

[WOM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

I feel so used now.

[RobM]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Jens Wildman wrote:

Just got bored for an hour.. needed to balance things out. It is after all the Internet.

Sure is, not a problem in any way.

[Lucia Lanigan]

Bruce Springsteen doc on BBC4

Etienne wrote:

Lucia, US radio is not exactly the same as UK radio in all sorts of ways, and Bruce Springsteen is not going to be interpreted the same way by a US audience as a UK audience all (or even most) of the time.

I'm aware of that. All I mean is, someone hearing a song that's basically all chorus, with the only prominent phrase being 'Born in the USA', is quite likely to think it's a song about being born in the USA. The thoughtful Vietnam stuff, which doesn't include the word 'Vietnam', demands the kind of attention neither your people nor mine are renowned for when hearing a pop song on the radio.

Having said that, there was very little confusion around 'God Save The Queen'.