There seems a very uneven bias toward goalkeepers in all this. Attackers and defenders encroaching strikes me as a far more obvious and frequent transgression.
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Goalkeepers will adapt. The ones in the U-20 World Cup got used to it to enough of an extent that it didn't seem to massively drag out shootouts.
Commiserations, obviously, to the Scots of OTF. I was giddy at the end there, though. They'll be out by this time tomorrow anyway, but if that campaign doesn't combine with the newly professional league to cause the increasing visibility of women's football here to snowball, then it'll be thanks to a spectacular act of sabotage from the AFA. What a performance. And I know we're trying not to do comparisons with the men's game here, but if Scaloni's charges showed half the organisation, togetherness and lack of fear the girls just did (and I'm using 'girls' deliberately, because Dalia Ippolito, whose sub did a lot to sway the game in those last twenty minutes, is 17 years old and has been playing for River's first team since the age of 13), I wouldn't be backing Paraguay to beat them in a couple of hours. At this rate, maybe Argentina really should try and host the next edition.
2003 (played three, lost three, scored one, conceded fifteen) is no longer Argentina's best-ever campaign at an official Women's World Cup.
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I was sitting at a bar in Reims tonight ahead of Canada-Holland tomorrow, chatting to a lovely American lad, Andy, who lives just down the road from where I lived just outside DC. Not a soccer player, just loves the game, jacked in his job to come to the WC and then backpack around Europe. So we‘re watching the two games and after each Scottish goal I‘m jumping off my chair and pumping my fist. Andy‘s pleased for me, but when I tell him at 3-0 we will find a way to screw this up he starts laughing at my lack of optimism. No, I tell him, this game will end 3-3. At 3-2 in the 78th. minute he starts to believe me. „The equaliser will come,“ I tell him, „ but not until the fourth minute of injury time.“ When the Argentine penalty was saved, I said that it makes no difference, the fucking VAR. will call it back anyway. The re-take was duly converted in the 94th. minute. „You called it!“ Andy acknowledged. And he also learnt something about what it means to be Scottish.
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Originally posted by Janik View PostActually, I won't watch either, as I'll be playing Squash in Luton at the time the games are on. Ah, nuts.
[skim reads two pages of joy followed by four of increasing angst, horror and anger] Oh...
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View PostNice goal. This going to be some last ten minutes
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Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
Yeah. The TSN crew reckoned the ref basically lost control of match and just wanted it over.
VAR isn't the problem, but how long they take to use it is - do they not practice or have any guidance before they plough on with it in front of the whole world?
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I'm not sure how a keeper can time her movements to the split second in the way the laws require. On the retake, she tried to do it by starting behind the line but might actually have been in front of the line when it was struck.
OTOH, as Sam says, this might be a case of the coaches not giving it enough attention (or the keeper forgetting the coaching in the heat of the moment). They could be coached to just move sideways I guess.
Japan were typically frustrating; technically the better side bit totally inept at finishing.
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Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View PostI'm not sure how a keeper can time her movements to the split second in the way the laws require. On the retake, she tried to do it by starting behind the line but might actually have been in front of the line when it was struck.
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Commiserations, Scotland. That's right up there with the most painful/farcical meltdowns in the history of international sport.
As for the penalty retakes, it would be OK if it really was "just applying the rules, and everyone knows them now". But that's not how it will play out. The second yellow card will not be given to the keeper, more often than not. At some stage in this tournament it may happen (in a shootout as mentioned upthread), a keeper will get sent off and global headlines will be made and a referee's head will be photoshopped and diplomatic relations will be severed, but for the most part it will be "common sense", defined as "not applying the rules consistently".
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- Mar 2008
- 9837
- Tyne 'n' Wear (emphasis on the 'n')
- Dundee Utd, Gladbach, Atleti, Napoli, New Orleans Saints, Elgin City
Hats off to Argentina, Sam, and the manager’s bold subbies- it looked like he was having a go at Banini/ giving someone a runout but the fresh legs and the direct runs at a tiring defence pulled off a near miracle.
I hope the miracle happens later with 2 draws...
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- Mar 2010
- 1380
- Southern Hemisphere
- St Mirren, Perth Glory
- Milk Chocolate digestive (has to be McVities)
That was so typically Scottish. Optus Sport do 24-minute mini matches, so I put it on whilst making my breakfast. By the time I'd chopped up my fruit and was ready to settle down and start eating we were 3-0 up and cruising. However I did notice I was only halfway through the broadcast, and at that point I knew it wasn't because we'd go on and score six or seven. Christ, that was painful.
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Originally posted by Bizarre Löw Triangle View PostNice way to secure Nigeria's progress after Monday night though (who have more reason to feel aggrieved really)
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Originally posted by Sam View PostGoalkeepers will adapt. The ones in the U-20 World Cup got used to it to enough of an extent that it didn't seem to massively drag out shootouts.
Commiserations, obviously, to the Scots of OTF. I was giddy at the end there, though. They'll be out by this time tomorrow anyway, but if that campaign doesn't combine with the newly professional league to cause the increasing visibility of women's football here to snowball, then it'll be thanks to a spectacular act of sabotage from the AFA. What a performance. And I know we're trying not to do comparisons with the men's game here, but if Scaloni's charges showed half the organisation, togetherness and lack of fear the girls just did (and I'm using 'girls' deliberately, because Dalia Ippolito, whose sub did a lot to sway the game in those last twenty minutes, is 17 years old and has been playing for River's first team since the age of 13), I wouldn't be backing Paraguay to beat them in a couple of hours. At this rate, maybe Argentina really should try and host the next edition.
2003 (played three, lost three, scored one, conceded fifteen) is no longer Argentina's best-ever campaign at an official Women's World Cup.
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- Mar 2008
- 20822
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Felicitaciones, Senoras! Amazing comeback. Bielsa will be pleased- the Sweatettes made hapless Leeds look like non-chokers
On VAR- it must be obvious that it's making many and potentially all televised games farcical. If every line decision is referred, games will last all night and the actual referee is largely redundant.
Allowing the refs and the broadcasters to decide what goes upstairs is the problem. Cricket manages pretty well with the teams allowed to challenge 2 obviously wrong decisions in a game of 600 set -pieces.
Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 20-06-2019, 09:11.
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Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View PostI'm not sure how a keeper can time her movements to the split second in the way the laws require. On the retake, she tried to do it by starting behind the line but might actually have been in front of the line when it was struck.
OTOH, as Sam says, this might be a case of the coaches not giving it enough attention (or the keeper forgetting the coaching in the heat of the moment). They could be coached to just move sideways I guess.
Of more immediate concern for me is whether Alexander was off her line at all when the first penalty was taken! There are two camera angles which are pretty hard to reconcile. The view from the camera inside the net (0:38 in this BBC clip, which again is probably geoblocked so sorry non-UK readers) she is airborne at the moment the ball appears struck, having jump from a position on the line just as the striker was approaching the ball. However, when she lands a fraction of a second later she is well in front of her line (her left foot plants with ~50cm of grass between it and the line), meaning the jump was forwards and not straight up. It strongly appears from that that she moved forwards early and was airborne and in front of the line when contact was made with the kick.
However, the side view in the same clip shows something so different I would swear it was not the same incident if I didn't know better. Here, at 0:44-0:45 (the moment the ball is struck helpfully paused by the TV director), Alexander's left foot is barely in front of the line. If it's in front of the line at all. It's certainly close enough to be ambiguous, on that shot.
Of the two, I think it's the side view that is more reliable. Because what I think is happening from the view from the in-goal camera is that you can't judge the exact moment the striker contacts the ball - where you think it happens is actually a fraction of a second after the contact (which of course you are blindsided to by the ball), when the ball is already in motion. And as Alexander is coming forwards, that misjudgement of the moment of contact makes her look further forward than she really was.
So all told, f*cking unlucky Scotland. Again. What should have been a good experience has become a sickening one. I'm sure there will be defiant claims that the players had a wonderful time apart from the last game, but it can't help but be tainted by how every key decision went against them. What ought to have been a gift to the SFA in growing the Women's game on from here has becoming a much more delicate than it ought to have been. Encouraging sporty youngsters into something where the possibility of pain and heartbreak has been clearly demonstrated is a much trickier sell than being able to reference joy and success.
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Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View PostAllowing the refs and the broadcasters to decide what goes upstairs is the problem. Cricket manages pretty well with the teams allowed to challenge 2 obviously wrong decisions in a game of 600 set -pieces.
Argentina were making no claims for a retake, and neither were France against Nigeria. The chances of either referring such a marginal thing were very low, if there was a cost to doing so of losing their only review of the match. Except, of course, if imp is right and 'keeper genuinely do routinely encroach... If that is true, then any team that misses a late penalty will give it a try in much the same way that a teams prime batsman will be given far more scope for speculative reviews than the no. 8.
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- Mar 2008
- 20822
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
Originally posted by Janik View PostWhat ought to have been a gift to the SFA in growing the Women's game on from here has becoming a much more delicate than it ought to have been. Encouraging sporty youngsters into something where the possibility of pain and heartbreak has been clearly demonstrated is a much trickier sell than being able to reference joy and success
Naima even had a starring role on youtube- the Irish Cup was paraded at their primary school round the corner from Seaview Stadium
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Originally posted by Janik View PostI think 'keepers will tell you if they just go sideways, the ball will go in even if they get a full hand on it. You need your weight going forwards to counteract the momentum of the ball. Also the mechanics of diving need a weight transfer, cf. Alexander's effort on the second goal. She sort of drags her right foot behind her to ensure it stays on the line (which I think she managed), but by doing that it meant she had no base to spring from, which is why she ends up doing little more than crumple at the knees slightly whilst staying upright. Which makes the new rules ('keepers are neither allowed to be in front of their line or behind it) nearly impossible to abide by. But that is FIFA's problem, not that of yesterday's ref.
Of more immediate concern for me is whether Alexander was off her line at all when the first penalty was taken! There are two camera angles which are pretty hard to reconcile. The view from the camera inside the net (0:38 in this BBC clip, which again is probably geoblocked so sorry non-UK readers) she is airborne at the moment the ball appears struck, having jump from a position on the line just as the striker was approaching the ball. However, when she lands a fraction of a second later she is well in front of her line (her left foot plants with ~50cm of grass between it and the line), meaning the jump was forwards and not straight up. It strongly appears from that that she moved forwards early and was airborne and in front of the line when contact was made with the kick.
However, the side view in the same clip shows something so different I would swear it was not the same incident if I didn't know better. Here, at 0:44-0:45 (the moment the ball is struck helpfully paused by the TV director), Alexander's left foot is barely in front of the line. If it's in front of the line at all. It's certainly close enough to be ambiguous, on that shot.
Of the two, I think it's the side view that is more reliable. Because what I think is happening from the view from the in-goal camera is that you can't judge the exact moment the striker contacts the ball - where you think it happens is actually a fraction of a second after the contact (which of course you are blindsided to by the ball), when the ball is already in motion. And as Alexander is coming forwards, that misjudgement of the moment of contact makes her look further forward than she really was.
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Probably a combination of both. It is the same incident, so there is an explanation for the seeming mismatch.
Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View PostMy young cousins Naima and Zara might disagree. They're 9 and big into football- both ball-girls at the u-19 Women Euros in Belfast last year. Of course we qualified as hosts and weren't disgraced, but they're old enough to realise that weak football teams tend to lose a lot. It hasn't reduced the enthusiasm that I can see.
Naima even had a starring role on youtube- the Irish Cup was paraded at their primary school round the corner from Seaview Stadium.
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- Mar 2008
- 20822
- Black Country Green Belt
- Crusaders FC, Norn Iron, not forgetting Serendib
- Blueberry vodka Jaffa cake on marzipan base
@ Janik- 2 separate issues. The first is much more significant and positive- the game will grow in Scotland largely for the reason you give, ie the women's team are quite good with infrastructure/ investment etc to suggest they can maintain and improve that.
They blew one game because the players choked / coach made bad decisions/ ref had a very poor game. They'll get over it, just like the NI team got over conceding 12 to the Dutch in qualifying.
As I said above, VAR was always going to be a bit of a joke during the 'teething' process, but that's over now and it's just a farce. Which pundits you'd expect to be more imaginative (Paudge Nevin, Caroline Barker) don't seem to have addressed. The problem isn't technology or player discipline, but a plain bad idea
PS have I mentioned a new OTF fundraising scheme? Fines for all messaging narrative memes
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It's all three games where the Scots have had no luck with officials.
Game 1 - have a dubious penalty for handball given against them during a 2-1 defeat
Game 2 - have a much more clear cut penalty for handball not given for them during a 2-1 defeat
Game 3 - everything that happened yesterday. The ref and her fourth official getting confused so play was allowed to restart for the move that led to the penalty whilst Scotland were making a sub (they only had 10 players on the pitch at the time play got back underway) is probably the most egregious of the lot, even than the Japan handball.
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