Dubliners

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

I'd like to get the who's who on that mysterious beast that is the association football scene in Dublin. Is there any sense of territoriality left in who supports who given how Dublin clubs like to play musical chairs with their stadiums? Does anyone care at all any more what with Dubliners being Liverpool-supporting West Brits and all?

That kind of stuff.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Dubliners

Rugby is the west-brit/castle catholics game.

Territoriality in Dublin is a very weak force given how dublin has changed over the last century. Everyone who lived in the city centre was moved out to a series of new suburbs from the fifties on, and a substantial proportion of the population are people who have moved from the country, or whose parents moved from the country, so there isn't much of a sense of 'local identity'.

[Kusal Flyer]

Dubliners

Doesn't the same argument largely apply to similar sized British cities (particularly London and Glasgow, but up to a point Manchester, Liverpool, Birmingham, even Belfast)? There have been huge population movements as AIATL says, but broadly speaking fans would support the same teams as their dad/ grandad, who in turn would likely have moved to new suburbs in roughly the same direction as their old homes. The main geographical divide in Dublin being the Liffey. When I lived there (25 years ago, but still well after the 50s), most Bohs fans were on/ from the Northside, most Rovers the Southside. The trend was less obvious for other clubs, but they had smaller supports.

Rugby union tends to be played in middle-class schools in most of the South, though there are strongholds like Limerick where it's broader based ( I think). Whereas our lot tend to play schools RU only in grammars in unionist areas. Toro will know in detail.

[Ek weet nie]

Dubliners

In the Dublin area you have Bohemians, Shamrock Rovers, St. Patrick's Athletic, Shelbourne, UCD, Sporting Fingal and Bray if you want to include it. (Technically Bray is in Wicklow).

Rovers are the team you are thinking of when you talk about a team groundhopping. They've played at the RDS, Morton Stadium in Santry, Tolka Park and Richmond Park (The Stadium of Light! Ha!). They've possibly even played at Dalymount too. Their longtime ground at Glenmalure Park, Milltown was sold about twenty years ago. There has been financial irregularities and they are currently building a stadium about 500 yards from my home in Tallaght. The only problem is that building started on that site 11 years ago. Funding and a court case concerning rights of local sport clubs to usage of it have held it up. However, the end appears to be in sight, the court case was finally resolved this year and more building progress has been made in the last 5 weeks than the preceeding 5 years. They think they'll be in there next season (summer football here remember). Territorially they would have had a south Dublin support but unfortunately they now have a relatively large hooligan wannabe support as part of their base. It's still the minority but with small crowds it gets much more noticeable and loud. Bohemians are gaining a similar reputation.

The other three big boys have something in common - that is property development. You might be aware that Ireland has experienced a massive rise in property prices (particluarly in the Dublin area). Any bit of space near to the city centre was sold for a fortune with apartments being built and sold for an absolute fortune. Bohs (Phibsboro), Shels (Drumcondra) and Pat's (Inchicore) found themselves owning land worth millions. Deals were mooted which involved selling land in return for cash + stadium in suburbs. Bohs seemed to go furthest along this route. However, if you look at the threads in World you'll see that Ireland is suffering badly in terms of economy and construction. Any deal is no likely to be scuppered.

Shelbourne were the most successful club of the nineties and early noughties. It appears as if the owner was holding out for a deal mentioned above because when his health declined it was revealed that the club was living way beyond their means. They were relegated off the pitch and are slowly rebuilding. Their stadium is Tolka Park in Drumcondra but they were always historically smaller than Bohs over in Phibsboro. If you power walked it would take about half an hour to walk from one to the other. Even when they were winning things crowds never got that high.

Bohs and Pat's both looked on the cusp of a bright future two years ago. Off the field anyway. Bohs had gone public on their plans to move to Carpenterstown (suburbia off the M50 ring road) in return for their land in Drumcondra and €17 million. Pat's were taken over by an entrepeneur and talked of redevelopment and greater commercial savviness. At the moment they are 1-2 in the league but I don't see their medium term future as being altogether rosy. Territorally Bohs are the biggest club in the North of the city and Dalymount is a nice ground. Although, rarely full. Pat's are located in Inchicore.

UCD are a university team based in Belfield. They have about 50 matchgoing fans at a push. Their funding comes from scholarships and corporate sponsorship mainly. They tend to have young developing squads and their players get picked up by others if they are any use. The footballing community woul prefer if they got relegated but they've been in the Premier Division for quite a while now.

Sporting Fingal are in the first divison and were only formed last year. Their crowds are small - I'm not sure where their fundig comes from but they've ben relatively successful for a start-up team.

Recently the League of Ireland teams have poured scorn on those who support cross-channel clubs. It is an admirable approach but probably not in the best interests of gaining new fans. I'd imagine there are probably as many Dublin people going to watch English and Scottish teams each week as there are who go to Pat's.

Spectator wise, Leinster seem to pretty well for big games and Dublin GAA gets huge crowds (60,000+) during the summer. In terms of participation, soccer rules the roost. The DDSL (Dublin and District Schoolboy League) is reportedly the biggest schoolboy league in Europe. There is a thriving amateur league structure for men in the city. Ladies football wouldn't be covered very well though. Gaelic football would be played by most sporting children in Dublin with a smaller number playing hurling. Men's football and hurling in Dublin is very competitive but low in terms of spectators.

The national team could lay a decent claim to best crowds (in terms of numbers) per population in Europe. Every newspaper in the land provides acres of coverage of the latest happenings in Old Trafford or Anfield. Supporting of cross-channel teams is not confined to Dublin although you could argue the support of Cork City or Derry City is better than that the Dublin teams enjoy.

There isn't much talk of West-Brit in seriousness today. I'm not sure how much of an impact it had on soccer really. When the League of Ireland was at it's height with crowds of twenty to thirty thousand in the fifties there was a ban on playing or spectating foreign games. If you were caught, you couldn't play GAA and faced the shame of your neighbours but people still went.

[Vulgarian Visigoth]

Dubliners

Thank you all.

[Kusal Flyer]

Dubliners

Good stuff there Nil-A. Pleased to hear that Tallaght stadium is on course for next season.

Derry City, Cork City and Linfield are currently the best-supported clubs in Ireland, I think.

[loose cannon]

Dubliners

While Bohs may have got a ridiculous amount of cash for Dalymount, the move to Carpenterstown will probably bring their support down to UCD levels. At present most the Bohs support come from within walking distance of the ground.
It's a long walk to from Cabra to Carpenterstown.
There had been a plan that involved doing a 'Monaco'* at Dalymount - that is keep the ground there but develop the terrace and stand behind the shopping centre into apartments overlooking the ground. That could have been interesting but instead the whole ground was flogged off.

* I was amused at the idea of luxury apartments overlooking the ground where wine drinking Boh supporters might be able to sip from their glasses while admiring the sporting activities. Come on you Boh chaps.

[Ek weet nie]

Dubliners

Is that deal still going ahead? I can't see it happening in the current climate.

[loose cannon]

Dubliners

Dunno - knowing Bohs, they've probably spent the cash already.

The club is dedicated to celebrating unhatched chickens.