European Cup Trivia

[Alex Anderson]

I had a chat with Norman at the airport going home in 2001, he was very touched that he was so fondly remembered in Albania

Bad enough you and Walt have been in the stadium when I haven't ... now you're just showing off.

Aye, it's an incredible testimony to both Norman and the cultural restrictions in Albania. I remember when I was a kid reading that the three countries in the world with the biggest turnouts per capita for their domestic football were Brazil, Scotland and Albania - which tell us all we need to know about Scotland's cultural restrictions. Be plenty middle-aged hipsters wearing a Norman Wisdom bunnet in tribute at Hampden in September anyway.

[tee rex]

Even though Windsor Park turned out to be the hare getting devoured by the greyhounds, this thread has delivered as always. Some great stories, and not even sourced from the internet.

The best hope I can offer Alex is to find a club that still pays players in luncheon vouchers and gives them testimonials. The London XI has made the occasional appearance ...



Or you could just pick up one of these programmes and fool yourself to better fool others, like a draft-dodger buying a Purple Heart on E-bay.

[Alex Anderson]

That’s an incredible stadium. I thought things of such size hadn’t been seen in Europe between Late Rome and the take-off of sport as a mass spectator activity in the late 19th Century (barring maybe bullfighting arenas).

Don't know if you've read Played in Glasgow, Lang Spoon (it's not all about the Old Firm ... just mostly) but the dressing rooms at lesser Hampden are in an old barn of Clincart Farm, which was on Cathcart Road from at least the early 19th century. Possible Milan's Arena is the only older building in the world to be used for professional fitba.

[Lang Spoon]

Never read that before Alex, I’ll seek it out, thanks.

[Lang Spoon]

Even more impressive when flooded for rowing competitions

Just wow.

[Alex Anderson]

Thanks, tee rex - I can't ever give up and that's given me hope. I did once go through a particularly pathetic phase of scanning the world wide web for London XI selects playing charity games. Usually just got a lot of pictures of Russell Brand in a West Ham strip being all ... oh, like, just CRAZY BONKERS GOOFY on the side lines of some celebs game at Selhurst Park.

I failed to get down to Old Trafford for one such pro-am fundraiser, in the last few years, which would've allowed me to say I'd seen Maradona playing. I blamed lack of time and funds but there's a possibility the sight of him taking a square ball from Robbie Williams might just have killed him a little for me. It's not really seeing him playing. There is, of course, an argument which says watching Aston Villa right now isn't really seeing the 1982 European Champions - but football lore and law says it really is.

So I think I'll keep my eyes open for a more weighty London select side - you're right, testimonials are the best bet - and wrap that around having seen all 11 clubs which provided the players for the European finalist London XI, like a big ribbon made out of anorak. I'll just need to hope that when I go up to the big (very tightly shut) brown gates of that great all-retaining anus in the sky, with my little biro-scrawled list in hand, that the 11 ticks and one asterisk I have next to the 1958 Fairs Cup runner-up is enough.

Still got another 33 to do before that, mind and have a funny feeling Videoton could be a lot bloody harder than QPR. Anyone know the Magyar for "return to Szekesfehervar, please" ... ad hoc? ...

[Satchmo Distel]

Page 96 brings us to Juventus winning it, kinda inevitably given their ability to beat more skilful sides through workrate and a tough defence, plus the pace of the front three, although none of Vialli, Ravanelli or Del Pierro really succeeded at international level. I saw the latter two at Euro 96 v Russia but Vialli did not make the squad, and Zola and Casiraghi were clearly better.

[Lang Spoon]

But Del Piero is an artist. Italy failed him. See also Di Natale.

[ursus arctos]

Del Piero has a World Cup Winners’ Medal.

There are entire generations of Argentine, Dutch and Hungarian players who would have happily signed up to be failed in that way.

[Alex Anderson]

Saw them at Ibrox in the group stage, winning 4-0 and generally showing it was their turn again.



First final in nine years in which both sides scored.

Juve then went on to become the only side to lose two straight finals on the back of winning one.

But can you give me the four other times - and four other clubs - to have lost the final the season after winning it.

[*EDIT: "Can we just take it for granted now that any time I ask for an instance of something, there will be one more than the number of instances I can recall."* As per EIM's posts below, it happened FIVE other times]

[EIM]

My lot. 2009.

[EIM]

Ajax did too. Mid 90s.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Liverpool in 1985.

[EIM]

I know the last one, but I don't want to spoil it for the nerds.

[Jah Womble]

AC Milan in 1995.

[EIM]

And Benfica, I think, in the 60s. So there's five.

[Alex Anderson]

Shit! I was so bloody busy thinking about Juve doing it 96 & 97 (and 98) that I forgot about them beating HOLDERS Ajax in the 96 final. Correct, EIM.

As usual with one of my quizzes, THERE'S ONE MORE CORRECT ANSWER THAN PREVIOUSLY ADVERTISED!

Benfica won it 1961 and 62, lost the 63 final.

Liverpool won it 84, lost the final 85

Milan won it 94, lost the final 95

Ajax won it 95, lost the final 96.

Man U won it 2008, lost the final 2009

Can we just take it for granted now that any time I ask for an instance of something, there will be one more than the number of instances I can recall.

[Satchmo Distel]

Del Piero has a World Cup Winners’ Medal.

There are entire generations of Argentine, Dutch and Hungarian players who would have happily signed up to be failed in that way.

He was a fine player but there are several better Italian players from 1986-2000 who never won a World Cup Winners’ Medal. Even among forwards, I think Toto Schillaci, Baggio, Casiraghi and Zola did more in an Italian shirt, although I accept Spoony's point that the coaches did not get the best out of him, whereas he won it with his old club coach, of course.

Also fair to point out that Del Pierro wasn't just a goalscorer, so had a lot of other facets.

[Alex Anderson]

Very interesting though (he says, quickly trying to pretend it's about the continuing of the conversation and not the veracity of the quizzes) - that the holder losing the final happened six different times with six different clubs.

Famously, the Cup-Winners' Cup was never retained. This was often attributed to the fact the champions would sometimes win their own domestic league in the same season and therefore be in the following season's European Cup (Milan 69 and Juve 85 won the European Cup the season after winning the CWC). In the latter years, of course, they could end up in the UCL simply through finishing high up their domestic league.

But it ignores the fact the CWC holders lost the final on no less than eight occasions (I'd double check that before quoting me - it was probably twelve), a habit which started with the first two winners, Fiorentina and Atletico Madrid. That's quite a feat for a competition which ended 19 years ago and began five years after the European Cup.



But I find it more interesting that the European Champion Clubs Cup/UEFA Champions League, which has had Real winning it five years on the bounce, Ajax and Bayern winning it three on the trot and Real again - as well as the likes of Liverpool, Forest, Milan, Inter and Benfica - retaining it the following season, has only had two less instances of a holder losing the final than a competition which ended up with ten more champion clubs over 38 years than the ECCC/UCL has after 62 (again, that's ten more at least!).



But not interesting enough to distract from the fact I keep posting bogus quizzes.

QUICK! OVER THERE! SATCHMO'S SAYING DEL PIERO WAS SHIT! EVERYONE LOOK AT SATCHMO!

[ad hoc]

Still got another 33 to do before that, mind and have a funny feeling Videoton could be a lot bloody harder than QPR. Anyone know the Magyar for "return to Szekesfehervar, please" ... ad hoc? ...

Székesfehérvárra visszatérő jegyet akarok, légyszives.

Piece of cake.

[Gangster Octopus]

Have Arsenal done it twice?

[Alex Anderson]

Székesfehérvárra visszatérő jegyet akarok, légyszives.

Piece of cake.

Cheers sir. Will send you a postcard.

[ad hoc]

Székesfehérvárra visszatérő jegyet akarok, légyszives.

Piece of cake.

Actually probably better to use kerek szépen instead of akarok, légyszives. I think my original was a bit directly translated.

[Alex Anderson]

Have Arsenal done it twice?

They've lost two Cup-Winners' Cup finals (1980 and 1995) but only v Zaragoza in 95 were they reigning champs, having beaten reigning champs Parma in the 94 final ...

(fuck it - I can't help myself - here goes nothing ...) NAME THE ONLY CLUB WHICH HAS TWICE LOST A EUROPEAN CROWN IN THE FOLLWING SEASON'S FINAL (There's bound to have been at least three but there's something in me which just can't stop ... you're an enabler, Gangster - d'you know that!)

CLUE: They did it in two different competitions.

[Alex Anderson]

Actually probably better to use kerek szépen instead of akarok, légyszives. I think my original was a bit directly translated.

I can't stand people on this page who give you an answer then come back later with a post saying that answer could be more correct. It's just negligence. Cheers again ad hoc.

What's Hungarian for "Fat cunt just comes up to me - all bold like - and demands to get taken to Videoton, sharpish - not a please, or thank you or 'sorry for my accent'. I just says to him 'first off, there's no such place as Videoton you muppet and, second, have some of this ..."