European Cup Trivia

[Sam]

The day I finally went completely off Mister Chip on Twitter (having thought he seemed a bit of a dick for quite some time before that) was when Diego Godín scored in the European Cup final and Señor Potato tweeted that he was the first Uruguayan to do so, then clarified that 'I'm not counting Schiaffino as Uruguayan because he was Italian by the time he scored in a European Cup final.'

The number of people who don't understand passports of convenience (or who think that as soon as one passport is taken, any previous nationality based on birth, parentage, life lived up to that point - you know, who a person actually is - ceases to apply) never fails to irritate me.

[denishurley]

Fully agree, Sam.

In March 2013, Shinja Kagawa was widely reported to have become the first player from Asia to score a hat-trick in the Premier League.

My efforts to remind people that Yossi Benayoun, from Israel, had already done so were answered with the anodyne response that Israel competed in European competitions.

[Sam]

According to Twitter, Zlatan Ibrahimovic today became the first player to feature in the Champions League (I did ask the stat account who tweeted it whether this record included the European Cup, but they haven't responded) for seven different clubs.

Can anyone name either of the two players with whom he was previously tied on six clubs apiece? (They're both CL-era, hence why I needed to send the above-mentioned query.)

[ursus arctos]

Were there two?

I believe that Saviola is one.

[Alex Anderson]

The number of people who don't understand passports of convenience (or who think that as soon as one passport is taken, any previous nationality based on birth, parentage, life lived up to that point - you know, who a person actually is - ceases to apply) never fails to irritate me.

And sometimes the player doesn't do a damn thing but his country changes name and size around him. The Stankovic Variation.

If I use the word "fluid" on the internet any more times this week I'll end up on a different kind of list but, yeah, it's all about the chat rather than the hard answers. And it should always be about the fitba.

God forbid anyone ever judges who I am as a person by the country I come from (you get fat bores in all corners of the globe). Football's one of the few areas in which it's possible to make a positive from borders. Fun, even. And even then it should only be temporary - for around, say, an hour and a half at a time. And yet we still manage to make it so horribly nationalistic, so often.

It's good to make a tit of ourselves with trivia - maybe lets us clear our minds to get the serious stuff right ... the non-football right.

[Jorge Porbillas]

Bloody marvellous Alex. Just caught up with this thread whilst whiling the hours away in the Merthyr Tydfil Premier Inn! Thanks

[Alex Anderson]

Fully agree, Sam.

In March 2013, Shinja Kagawa was widely reported to have become the first player from Asia to score a hat-trick in the Premier League.

My efforts to remind people that Yossi Benayoun, from Israel, had already done so were answered with the anodyne response that Israel competed in European competitions.

They do though. He says anodynely.

Sorry. I'm just being a knob there, Denis (so you know it's definitely me) but a serious fuck off to anyone being anodyne about the stats trivia. Your smugo challenger had a point but seems to have missed the point in the way he made it.

It's the fitba. It's a game. The whole thing is about daft parameters being agreed to by those of us who want to take some time off from the real rigours of life and indulge in some harmless, self-imposed ones.

The Premier League, what constitutes a goal - these are constructs. ("So is Israel"? Yeah but no more so than any other country and not one invented by football) If we're dismissing football's rules on which confederation Israel and therefore all its players pertain to then we could just as well decide three throw-ins equals a hat-trick of goals. Or that - I dunno - Australia has moved to Asia??!!

But Yossi's definitely from the Middle East.

[Alex Anderson]

Just caught up with this thread whilst whiling the hours away in the Merthyr Tydfil Premier Inn!

You flash bastard, Jorge. It's the champagne lifestyle of guys like you that's pricing us ordinary fans out the game ...

Okay, I stayed in that Ibis when I was at England v Scotland in 2013 ... but that was London! London doesn't get any cheaper than Ibis ... And we didn't book breakfast!

Right then. First Welshman to play in the Final?

[tee rex]

Right then. First Welshman to play in the Final?

I cheated and looked it up. When it's been answered by a law-abiding contestant, here's a follow-up: who was the first Welshman to be an unused sub?

Hint: you cannot possibly know this. I had honestly never heard of him before.

[Sam]

Were there two?

I believe that Saviola is one.

Yep, Saviola's one, and there's one other. They have at least one club in common.

[ursus arctos]

Deco?

Anelka?

[Sam]

Anelka it is!

[Antepli Ejderha]

Fully agree, Sam.

In March 2013, Shinja Kagawa was widely reported to have become the first player from Asia to score a hat-trick in the Premier League.

My efforts to remind people that Yossi Benayoun, from Israel, had already done so were answered with the anodyne response that Israel competed in European competitions.

Geographically do we include Turkey in Europe? What about some of the ex Soviet Republics? All play in UEFA and some are candidates for the EU.

[Sam]

Those are clearly greyer areas than Israel, though.

My assumption, if one is going to decide how strict to be there, would be that such a discussion would stick to the traditionally held 'European' / 'Asian' bits of Turkey, and by extension or implication I'd then use the Urals as the eastern limit of Europe/western limit of Asia. Other interpretations are available, though (and indeed, in different circumstances, or perhaps even in these ones, I wouldn't argue with them myself).

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

It's only in booking cruises in Caribbean that you realise how much of that is still "part of Europe". St Marten is both French and Dutch, a good pub quiz answer for the countries that share a land border with Holland

[Ek weet nie]

Are you sure about Anelka? I didn’t think that he played in the champions league for Arsenal, Liverpool or Man City. That only leaves five other teams that were in the champions league that he played for.

[Southport Zeb]

Anelka played in the Champions League for Arsenal in 1998

[wittoner]

Right then. First Welshman to play in the Final?

Well, Joey Jones seems the obvious answer but seeing as Alex set the question it can't possibly be as straightforward as that.

EDIT - oh Bugger! of course it's not Joey Jones. I've looked it up now so I'll let someone else have the glory.

[Alex Anderson]

Geographically do we include Turkey in Europe? What about some of the ex Soviet Republics? All play in UEFA and some are candidates for the EU.

Point well made, AE - the parameters are very flu ... very flui ... no. No - I'm not going to say it ...

Those are clearly greyer areas than Israel, though.

My assumption, if one is going to decide how strict to be there, would be that such a discussion would stick to the traditionally held 'European' / 'Asian' bits of Turkey, and by extension or implication I'd then use the Urals as the eastern limit of Europe/western limit of Asia. Other interpretations are available, though (and indeed, in different circumstances, or perhaps even in these ones, I wouldn't argue with them myself).

Bang on, Sam. And again proving that when we're putting these nationality- or continent-based trivia questions together we can't afford to be as anodyne as those dismissing Denis's point on Yossi Benayoun, above. Before we even get football involved we're already working with all sorts of established, historic geopolitical compromises. And there's always a new one round the corner (I'll be the daft fucker who mentions Brexit; but we can look forward to even-dafter fuckers asking "Why are we competing in UEFA competitions when we're no longer PART OF EUROPE?!" Jeezus.) ...

Antepli's The Man here but, as an example, we non-Turks commonly see the Bosphorus as dividing Europe and Asia geographically. And politically and socially, Turkey can be seen as torn between or beautifully uniting those two continents. And then, as you say, we have the Urals and the Caucuses and people on either side wanting to be part of the other in one sphere or another ... It's really very fl ... flu ... flui ... [No, Alex. Don't. Police Scotland have highly advanced cyber capabilities. You've set off too many red flags already].

And then, just to add to the overlaps, contradictions and imaginary line-drawing of geopolitics, football comes along and does what it does with its confederations. Australia's in Asia, Israel's in Europe and Concacaf includes the Caribbean ... but ...

It's only in booking cruises in Caribbean that you realise how much of that is still "part of Europe". St Marten is both French and Dutch, a good pub quiz answer for the countries that share a land border with Holland

FLUID! FLUID! FLUID! LOTS AND LOTS OF HOT, STICKY ... erm ... sorry ... I mean, the parameters by which we judge football nationality are just so very fluid.

And if you set that kind of question, Rogin - for example, deciding 1998 was one of the answers to "How many World Cup Finals have been contested between countries sharing a border?" because of French Guiana and Brazil - you'd be hunted out the pub and down the street by "Brewers Droopers", "Me Myself and Di", "Brain Drain" and every other team of retired primary school teachers and local council middle managers nursing their half-and-half lager shandies for three hours on their only night in the pub as they try to prove the stupidity of the people they normally take singularly un-self-aware pleasure in claiming they wouldn't be seen dead around but expose themselves as existentially dreading the discovery that a life of abstinence has not in fact made them better than anyone, involved in the tie-breaker you set, their lit answer sheets illuminating the precinct with an outrage that burns brighter than the strip light fluorescence beaming like multiple white light sabres through the lowermost slats of the decorative top of the three-quarters-descended roller shutters of the Spar Eight-til-Late. Where they're just cashing up.

Yet, your answer would be STRICTLY true.

When one is putting these questions together there has to be some sort of compromise between what answers you could give and what are, ye know, morally acceptable. So, in light of this, and in tribute to the amazingly sincere John Lewis and Debenhams adverts on telly right now, all I can do is re-consider, re-post and re-name my two sets of answers to Only players from a country to play in the Final of the European Champion Clubs' Cup/UEFA Champions League:


NAUGHTY LIST:

Mario Lemina – Gabon – Juventus 2017
Juan Cuadrado – Colombia – Juventus 2017
Keylor Navas - Costa Rica – Real Madrid 2016 and 2017
Stefan Savić - Montenegro - Atletico Madrid 2016
Arturo Vidal – Chile – Juventus 2015
Park Ji-Sung – South Korea – Man United 2009 and 2011
Antonio Valencia – Ecuador – Man United 2011
Goran Pandev - Macedonia - Internazionale 2010
Alexander Hleb – Belorussia - Arsenal 2006
Harry Kewell - Australia - Liverpool 2005 and 2007
Dmitri Alenichev – Russia – Porto 2004
Benni McCarthy – South Africa – Porto 2004
Shabani Nonda - DRC – AS Monaco 2004
Kakha Kaladze – Georgia - Milan 2003 and 2007
Dwight Yorke – Trinidad and Tobago - Man United 1999
Vata (Matanu Garcia) – Angola – Benfica 1990
Hajry (Redouane) – Morocco - Benfica 1988
Rabah Madjer – Algeria – Porto 1987
Norbert Nachtweih – East Germany – Bayern 1987
Bruce Grobbelaar – Rhodesia and Zimbabwe – Liverpool 1984 and 85
Massimo Bonini - San Marino – Juventus 1983 and 1985
Victor Benitez – Peru – Milan 1963


NICE LIST:

Mario Lemina – Gabon – Juventus 2017
Juan Cuadrado – Colombia – Juventus 2017
Keylor Navas - Costa Rica – Real Madrid 2016 and 2017
Arturo Vidal – Chile – Juventus 2015
Park Ji-Sung – South Korea – Man United 2009 and 2011
Antonio Valencia – Ecuador – Man United 2011
Alexander Hleb – Belorussia - Arsenal 2006
Harry Kewell - Australia - Liverpool 2005 and 2007
Dmitri Alenichev – Russia – Porto 2004
Benni McCarthy – South Africa – Porto 2004
Shabani Nonda - DRC – AS Monaco 2004
Kakha Kaladze – Georgia - Milan 2003 and 2007
Dwight Yorke – Trinidad and Tobago - Man United 1999
Jocelyn Angloma - Guadeloupe - Marseille 1993, Valencia 2000 & 2001
Vata (Matanu Garcia) – Angola – Benfica 1990
Hajry (Redouane) – Morocco - Benfica 1988
Rabah Madjer – Algeria – Porto 1987
Bruce Grobbelaar – Rhodesia and Zimbabwe – Liverpool 1984 and 85
Massimo Bonini - San Marino – Juventus 1983 and 1985
Victor Benitez – Peru – Milan 1963


Just Too Uninformed and Scared to Say List:

Fahrudin Jusufi of Partizan Belgrade 1966 ... and ...
Stevan Stojanović, Red Star's goalkeeping captain of 1991 ...

... were both born in Kosovo. AND IT'S NOT AS IF KOSOVO WAS EVER INVOLVD IN ANY TENSIONS ABOUT BORDERS OR AUTONOMY STUFF, IS IT!!! The place itself has had enough of people being very strict and definite about it - in completely different directions - and, while it looks like Fahrudin is Muslim, there is no knowing if, had the choice been available, he would rather have played for Albania ... maybe even Bosnia. Maybe he was happy to be regarded as Serb. Most likely, judging by the quote attributed to him on Wiki, he would prefer to remain a guy who played for the former Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia. But both these players or neither could now, in the days of Kosovo playing competitive international football, possibly be seen as Kosovar. However, if it's just one of them, I'd really need to know how the player himself feels before deciding whether putting him down as Kosovo's only European cup finalist is very naughty or very nice. It just feels far too stupid of me to get involved.

[Alex Anderson]

Wittoner, tee rex - you're being very gentlemanly about this one. Nice List.

CLUE: My missus and I were once stood behind his daughter and her husband in the checkouts at Morrisons in Anniesland, Glasgow.

(Aye the question's straightforward ... but the clue doesn't have to be. [*demonic snigger*] It was still a Safeway at the time! [*full demonic laugh*])

[Lang Spoon]

That by Anniesland Court tower, Alex? I love that building. Like a shiny Balfron Tower

[ursus arctos]

For the record:

Ibrahimovic: Ajax, Juventus, Inter, Barcelona, Milan, PSG and Manchester United.

Saviola: Barcelona, Monaco, Real Madrid, Benfica, Malaga and Olympiakos.

Anelka: PSG, Arsenal (5 matches in 98/99), Real Madrid, Fenerbahce, Chelsea and Juventus.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Well, Joey Jones seems the obvious answer but seeing as Alex set the question it can't possibly be as straightforward as that.

EDIT - oh Bugger! of course it's not Joey Jones. I've looked it up now so I'll let someone else have the glory.

Terry Yorath?

[Alex Anderson]

Terry Yorath?

Get basking, Walt. This AND Clint Hill signs a new contract? What a day you're having ...

Terry Yorath. Leeds United v Bayern 1975.

He should also have been the first player, of any nationality, to be sent off in the final. Already been declared Worst Tackle Ever In The Final by this thread.

And I had no idea, Tee Rex, about the first Welsh unused sub but also glanced it on Wiki. So I'll do like you guys and stand aside - leaving it for the greatest European Cup Trivia buff the world has ever seen ... or a Leeds fan.

[Alex Anderson]

That by Anniesland Court tower, Alex? I love that building. Like a shiny Balfron Tower

The very same, Lang Spoon. One year older than me yet it continues to get more sleek and attractive in a way I haven't quite managed.

Anniesland Court, that is. The Morrisons is nothing to look at. And only one of them's listed.

And I don't mean naughty listed.