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[Rogin the Armchair fan]

It strikes me, that this year's Premier League, with no-one seemingly confident of beating anyone else and games unexpectedly ending 3-3 when everyone predicted 0-0, is probably the most interesting it's been since the 1990s. The eventual champions could well, for a start, end up with the lowest points total since 1999, when Man United squeaked in with 79.

I know in terms of overall comparative quality it likely doesn't deserve the accolade, compared to La Liga, the Bundesliga and maybe even Serie A or Ligue 1, this year, but surely it's a more interesting contest for once than watching PSG, Bayern or the el Clasicos run away with those?

[My Name Is Ian]

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I have zero interest in how awesomely outrageous the talents of players are and I think that cross-league comparatives are pretty much a waste of time so yes, this is most interesting season in the top division in a very long time, so far as I'm concerned. Since when isn't an easy question, though. 1992/93, perhaps, when Manchester United, Aston Villa and Norwich City were all in the race until the spring? Or 1985/86, when Liverpool, Everton or West Ham United could all have still won it with a few weeks to play?

Of course, the fact that the BRCs won it on the occasions that I've mentioned doesn't fill me with great confidence for how this season will end up turning out, but I'm pretty certain I wouldn't be watching top division football at all if I lived in Spain or France, or probably in Germany too over the last couple of years or so. Serie A is much more entertaining and varied these days, isn't it?

[dalliance]

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Serie A is interesting this season for the same reason the Premier League is interesting: there's a lot of decent but unremarkable clubs taking points off each other every week, meaning theoretically there's a range of teams that could win the title.

I say theoretically as this was all skewed by the awful start the one genuinely good team, Juventus, made. Probably within a month they'll have things wrapped up.

86 as mentioned was a good year with West Ham pushing Everton and Liverpool. Also in the mix until Easter was Chelsea until they suffered those incredible back to back 4-0 and 6-0 defeats to West Ham and QPR. In 89 newly promoted Millwall were in some sort of contention until Easter too, as was Norwich.

The most recent non-obvious club that I thought might have made a breakthrough was Aston Villa in the late 90s until they lost Dwight Yorke. I suppose some might say that Leeds a couple of years later qualify, but like Newcastle in 96 I never, ever thought they would become champions and even if they had, their huge spending meant they were not in any way distinct from the BRCs anyway.

[garcia]

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this is the most entertaining premier league season for oooh, at least two years.

[Patrick Thistle]

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I'm sill interested this year where usually I've stopped caring by Christmas.

[sw2borshch]

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Most interesting is the best, isn't it?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

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Rogin, have you watched any european football lately, other than youtube clips of goals? or say French football in particular?

[TheNonFlyingFrenchman]

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As Berba points out (it has also been pointed out elsewhere), Ligue 1 is of an awful standard, in particular this season. I think this is mostly due to quite a lot of teams playing "not to lose", in a way, say, any Pulis team would do (with less provocation and red card offenses though).

Angers, a promoted team who proudly sits 2nd with a deficit of 20 points to PSG, no less (!), are not pretty to watch. Still pretty good and efficient, mind.

The entertainers in ligue 1 this season are Lorient - as usual - and Nice.

Lyon and Marseille have sometimes been entertaining too, albeit frequently against their wishes.

[E10 Rifle]

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The 86 championship race was a three-horse race almost to the end wasn't it? Loth though I am to say it, but West Ham were really excellent that year, not least because they played about 10 games in the final month of the season and won most of 'em.

[My Name Is Ian]

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I think - and I'm doing this from memory, so could well be wrong - that on the last Saturday of the season, Liverpool won the league by wining at Chelsea. Had they failed to do so and Everton failed to win their game against Southampton (which they won, 6-1), West Ham could have gone top by winning at West Brom, who were already relegated, and beating Everton the following midweek. But it was all rendered irrelevant by Liverpool winning at Chelsea.

[Satchmo Distel]

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It's skewed by having the "race for 4th", which was never previously of interest. The Champions League spots keep Man United and Liverpool in the chase when normally they'd be written off because the title is way out of reach for them, and has been since before Xmas.

The actual top spot is not that interesting. It "should" be Man City but it will be Arsenal if MC keep stuttering. I don't think there's a genuine 3rd candidate unless Leicester really are extraordinarily resilient.

OTOH Chelsea's collapse is the worst since Ipswich in 1963, as previously discussed, so that's a good subplot, as is the fact that "the likes of" Stoke and Palace go into games against the top 4 with reasonable chances of "a result".

[E10 Rifle]

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Leeds in 92-93?

[Jah Womble]

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Failing to win any away matches whatsoever tended to negate that stat somewhat...

[Duncan Gardner]

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E10 Rifle wrote: The 86 championship race was a three-horse race almost to the end wasn't it? Loth though I am to say it, but West Ham were really excellent that year, not least because they played about 10 games in the final month of the season and won most of 'em

'Stam were in it until the backlog caught up and they lost at home to that rarity, a Paudge Nevin header for Chelsea. Who themselves faded after Dixon got hurt in February. He only actually missed about two games due to the weather but was never the same afterwards.

[Duncan Gardner]

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My Name Is Ian wrote: I think - and I'm doing this from memory, so could well be wrong - that on the last Saturday of the season, Liverpool won the league by wining at Chelsea

Aye, that's my memory too. Was at the game. Chelsea's response to the defeat was a debut for young Scottish keeper Les Fridge in the next game. He conceded five.

[dalliance]

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That West Ham 86 season seems a sort of forgotten one-off now doesn't it? Which is odd considering it was the best League season in their history.

I suppose people get too caught up in the nostalgia of the Moore, Peters and Hurst era forgetting that Bobby Moore never managed a top five League finish in his entire career.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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My Name is Ian is correct in his recollection - if Liverpool had lost at Chelsea, the Everton-West Ham game on the Monday night would have been the title decider with a twist - either Everton or West Ham would have become champions with a win, but Liverpool would have still won, in absentia, had they drawn. As it was, West Ham lost 3-1 at Goodison in what was after all a meaningless game, and finished third.

Part of the reason that season is half-forgotten is that there was a dispute between the League and the TV companies, so nothing was shown (or still exists on youtube) until about February. Lost to all but memory are Man United's 10-game winning start (they were 11 points clear at the end of November, and ended up fourth) and Frank McAvennie's scoring streak (he scored something like 15 goals before Christmas, a bit like Vardy this year).

[meregreen]

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My Name Is Ian wrote: I think - and I'm doing this from memory, so could well be wrong - that on the last Saturday of the season, Liverpool won the league by wining at Chelsea. Had they failed to do so and Everton failed to win their game against Southampton (which they won, 6-1), West Ham could have gone top by winning at West Brom, who were already relegated, and beating Everton the following midweek. But it was all rendered irrelevant by Liverpool winning at Chelsea.

West Ham had a massive backlog of games and so their game at Everton was put back to the Monday after all the other fixtures had been played.

With about three matches remaining it looked like the final match showdown would mean that either team would win the league if they won that game, but if it was drawn Liverpool would be champions. In the event we lost our final away game at Oxford, West Ham lost their penultimate match and Dalglish won it for Liverpool at Chelsea. Thousands of West Ham fans had already bought tickets for that game and they celebrated their best ever league position by tearing out seats and lobbing them at the Everton players doing a lap of honour.

Five days after beating West Ham in what was ultimately a meaningless match, Everton then lost the Cup final to Liverpool.

I hated that season. I think Hearts had a similar season that year.

Edit: was on the phone and see Rogin has made the same point.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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Certainly the last time 3 teams in England could have won the title on the last day, and yes, Everton (like Hearts) managed to lose out on both the league and the cup in the very last week of the season, something Don Revie's Leeds used to do year in, year out. A fate that (I think) has only befallen one side since - Man United in 1995, when (ironically) it was West Ham who stopped them winning the League, and then Everton who beat them in the Cup Final.

[ale]

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Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: Certainly the last time 3 teams in England could have won the title on the last day, and yes, Everton (like Hearts) managed to lose out on both the league and the cup in the very last week of the season, something Don Revie's Leeds used to do year in, year out. A fate that (I think) has only befallen one side since - Man United in 1995, when (ironically) it was West Ham who stopped them winning the League, and then Everton who beat them in the Cup Final.

not sure that 3 teams had a chance of winning the title on the last day...Liverpool had 85 points and with Everton (80 points) still to play West Ham (81 points) as the game in hand only one of them could have matched the 85 points Liverpool already had...

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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Yes, but they were going to play each other - so if Liverpool had lost at Chelsea, all three could still have won the league.

[ale]

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Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: Yes, but they were going to play each other - so if Liverpool had lost at Chelsea, all three could still have won the league.

if Liverpool lost at Chelsea & both Everton & West Ham win...that would leave Liverpool 85 W Ham 84 Everton 83 going into the Goodison game...it was impossible for both to finish ahead of Liverpool...

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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I never claimed they could have BOTH have finished ahead of Liverpool, I said either of them could - just as in the scenario you've just outlined - have WON it. And if they'd drawn. Liverpool would would still have taken the title.

As I said, the last 3-way title race that went to the last moment.

[ale]

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Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: I never claimed they could have BOTH have finished ahead of Liverpool, I said either of them could - just as in the scenario you've just outlined - have WON it. And if they'd drawn. Liverpool would would still have taken the title.

As I said, the last 3-way title race that went to the last moment.

still disagree....the last game of the season is 3 May with Everton yet to play West Ham....theres no sequence of results on 3 May that still offers the option of 3 teams winning the league...

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

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Right, let's take this very slowly. VERY slowly.

On the morning of the 3rd May, 1986, the top of the table looked like this.

Liverpool P 41 Pts 85
West Ham P 40 Pts 81
Everton P 40 Pts 80

So. IF Liverpool had LOST at Chelsea, and the other two won their games (as, indeed, they did) the league table going into the final game between Everton and West Ham would have been:

Liverpool P 42 Pts 85
West Ham P 41 Pts 84
Everton P 41 Pts 83

Liverpool had a huge advantage over West Ham on goal difference, so a draw would have suited them.

But ALL THREE TEAMS could have won the title dependeing on the result of that final game.