Arabs sprung

[Guy Profumo]

Oops!

The Spartans 1-0 Dundee United


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66212123

[blameless]

One of several instances of bigger teams getting embarrassed by smaller ones yesterday. My own lot needing a 12-round penalty shootout to overcome Peterhead looks like a runaway success in comparison.

[AMMS]

The League Cup tends to throw up some surprise results at this stage, I guess a lot of clubs haven't fully sorted squads out, pre-season training at different stages and whatever other changes take place in the close season. But that shouldn't detract from enjoying United's latest comedic moment. Goodwin's career trajectory does look like his next stop will be as Go Radio's resident Celtic minded phone-in shock-jock and selling herbal slimming potions on the back of buses.
It's all very Jack Ross. Makes you wonder if Alloa and St. Mirren are just very well run clubs and whoever goes there ends up looking good while it's actually the people behind the scenes that are the talented ones.

[Cousin Boneless]

How can you play competitive football in the middle of July? Ridiculous, for the League Cup to start when teams should be playing friendlies.

[MrLeam]

How can you play competitive football in the middle of July?

Dundee United avoided it quite easily on Saturday

[blameless]

At this rate Jim Goodwin may be sacked even before Yinited's first league game.

[Felicity, I guess so]

We scored a goal!

[MyPieBurntMyMouth]

I'm broadly in favour of the League Cup groups, but there are a few things that need thought about.

It's half one in the morning and I'm just back from Clyde's defeat at Cove. We left at about 4.30 and that's me just in the door, and we went of our own volition, nobody had a gun to our heads.

But we saw Clyde take on (full-time) Cove with a threadbare squad, only days after losing to (full-time) Accies in a game that was even for an hour or so, but which Clyde tired in and could not change things up as they could only name two outfield subs. Apparently it is beneath the dignity of the tournament to allow trialists, and is much better to just have lopsided games skewed by sides not having completed their transfer business by July 15th.

Inanity.

Accies made five changes in the second half and their freshness told.

Clyde have two defeats on the board. Not unexpected. But they have played reasonably well in big chunks of both matches. The no-trialists rule essentially forces some clubs to fight with one hand tied behind their back. Clyde's involvement in the play-offs last year cut their summer short in terms of knowing the budget and getting recruitment going, and now they go into back-to-back competitive games against full-time sides without a finished squad and unable to bulk up the subs' bench or give part-time players adequate rest.

It's stupid, and makes a farce of this stage of the tournament.

[blameless]

I feel your pain MPBMM - my own lot also had a ridiculously short close season due to the playoffs and were able to upgrade by one whole sub (from 5 to 6, still well short of the permitted 9) from the Peterhead game to the United one due to getting a youngster on loan* from Rangers.

It's only because Kris Doolan is some sort of magician (and because Goodwin is a monumental fraud) that we're sitting on 5 points rather than 0 right now.

*trialists not permitted, but loanees signed the day before are. Go figure.

[Felicity, I guess so]

Not to defend Goodwin, who was a daft appointment (and we interviewed Barry Robson last year when Fox got the job...) but he has lost Fletcher, Harkes, Behich, Pawlett, McGrath from a poor/underperforming team.

No. 9 and 10 in our squad list are blank. The youth players aren't ready (and I wouldnt want them booed at every week).

Basically what Meh Peh said about this cup at this time.

[MyPieBurntMyMouth]

There's still time for him to turn this round, and I appreciate there is still transfer window time etc. But maybe it's time to consider accepting that Goodwin is just not a very good coach, and one who lucked into the position to get the job he has as well as the one before.

1) Getting Alloa promoted: They finished third in League One. Keep in mind this is basically his best league season so far. They were closer to fifth than second in points and managed to get through the play-offs. Fair enough. He then kept them in the Championship the following year. Fair enough, but it was by a baw hair. Still, a decent job. But not incredible the way some people sell it.

2) St Mirren. Hugely mixed bag. But let's look at the season when he left for Aberdeen. Aberdeen's form was poor in the autumn and Glass's coat looked to be on a shoogly peg. Had he got the bullet on 28 November (had lost 8 out of the previous 11), Goodwin would never have got the job, as his St Mirren side had so far won 3 out of 15 games. He wouldn't have been quoted. But then Aberdeen had three games against bottom six sides, and won them, giving Glass a few more weeks in the job. St Mirren's form turned and when they eventually emptied Glass, Aberdeen's moronic owner was seduced by Goodwin's St Mirren having won 4 and drawn 2 out of six games. At that point they had won 7 out of 26 in the league. It was a ludicrous decision from Cormack.

3) His Aberdeen side were dreadful. Even when they were sitting third last autumn, you could see they had been getting by on kind fixtures, opponents getting red cards at Pittodrie, and that their away form (hello Dundee United) was very poor. It was no surprise when his bubble burst there, only that it burst so spectacularly. Arguably, the best thing that happened to Aberdeen FC last season was the 5-0, 1-0 (Darvel), 6-0 week. Had they beaten Darvel and lost 2-1 at Hibs, I reckon Cormack would have left him in the job and Aberdeen would have finished bottom six.

4) United (inexplicably) took him in. There was absolutely no evidence he had the skills they were looking for. Unfathomable to me. He then proceeds to become (I think) the first manager to lose five post-split games, does very little to improve the situation, and down they go. What do United do? Give him a new contract! Fuck me!

The guy has done absolutely nothing in his managerial career to suggest he is qualified to hold either of his last two posts. St Mirren went on to improve after he left, Aberdeen improved remarkably after he left, even Alloa managed to do another season in the Championship after he left. Last season Brian Rice had them three points shy of Goodwin's points total and in the League One play-offs again.

He seems like a nice man. I have no personal issue with him (thug as a player, mind you, but I'll overlook that). But his managerial career has absolutely no substance to it, and I just don't see any justification for expecting him to improve.

I quite like United. I wouldn't mind seeing them go back up. I hold no ill will towards them and I'd like to be wrong about this. But I just don't see any evidence this guy can coach a team.

[The Red Max]

I would concur with 100% of the above, especially the analysis of his time at The Dons, and the timing of his exit. Darvel was a humiliating result, but they did us a huge favour in the end.
Had Goodwin stayed, even if only for another month or so, there would be no top 6 finish, no European football, poorer quality signings over the summer, players sold to balance the books etc. etc.
United's decision to give him the job permanently was astonishing, but totally on brand for the current regime at Tannadice.

Goodwin does seem like a decent and likeable bloke, people I know who have met him would confirm that, so you can see how he would interview well. But his CV is pretty empty.
His chief blind-spot is to continue his professional partnership with assistant & 1st team coach Lee Sharp. From what I've heard from sources with connections to Pittodrie, his training sessions were stuff that was out of date 20 years ago, and frankly embarrassing from someone who holds a UEFA Pro license.

So long as United's board of directors lack direction, persisting with a manager who can't manage, and a coach who can't coach, I only see it getting even worse for them.
Which is a shame, as Tannadice is probably the best away trip of the season. We'll just have to make do with Dens Park for the foreseeable future.

[AMMS]

I thought his record at St Mirren was better than that, perhaps because he followed Alan Stubbs and Oran Kearney it seemed like he was doing better than he was. That said keeping St Mirren mid table is still an achievement, more than a few have failed to do that. Anyway, here's hoping for a slight rally for a few weeks so Utd keep him for a few more months, they might replace him with someone good and then what would we do.

[George C.]

Be happy that the biggest club in Dundee were on their way back?

[MyPieBurntMyMouth]

I thought his record at St Mirren was better than that, perhaps because he followed Alan Stubbs and Oran Kearney it seemed like he was doing better than he was. That said keeping St Mirren mid table is still an achievement, more than a few have failed to do that. Anyway, here's hoping for a slight rally for a few weeks so Utd keep him for a few more months, they might replace him with someone good and then what would we do.

2019-20 finished 9th. Lifted out of a relegation battle by the pandemic. Knocked out in the LC group stage after draws with Albion Rovers and East Kilbride. Fair draw to the QF in the Scottish Cup.

2020-21 - Finished 7th. Blew their target of a top six place by only picking up two points from the last three games in the normal season against three of the bottom four clubs in the division. Two cup semi-finals, to be fair.

2021-22 - As mentioned above. Absolutely dreadful until the last six weeks, which fooled Cormack into hiring him. They were sitting seventh in the league, but they'd just enjoyed a good run due to a good run of fixtures against some of the weaker teams in the league. He bailed before a run in which they faced the whole top six over seven fixtures and dropped back to tenth. Cormack was tricked by the fixture list, just like he had been in keeping Glass on.

[blameless]

Not to defend Goodwin, who was a daft appointment (and we interviewed Barry Robson last year when Fox got the job...) but he has lost Fletcher, Harkes, Behich, Pawlett, McGrath from a poor/underperforming team.

No. 9 and 10 in our squad list are blank. The youth players aren't ready (and I wouldnt want them booed at every week).

Basically what Meh Peh said about this cup at this time.

Two of our keys players from last season were playing in last night's game (Docherty and Holt), but wearing orange jerseys instead of pink and grey ones. Doolan has managed to replace them with much fewer available resources, and integrate them quickly enough that we beat your lot in a League Cup tie for the first time in my lifetime (the previous 7 occasions were DUFC wins).

[Guy Profumo]

(I hadn't realised when I posted this it wasn't a knockout competition at this stage
Bollockses up the thread title somewhat, doesn't it)

[Felicity, I guess so]

No, we are very definitely oot

[blameless]

Blameless snr and myself were at Firhill to see Thistle beat Spartans 2-1 to finally win this rollercoaster of a group. Our 9 points was just enough to edge out Falkirk (8) and Dundee United and Spartans (6 each).

The weirdness continued elsewhere, with Stirling Albion gubbing St.Johnstone 4-0 in Perth.

[MyPieBurntMyMouth]

Quite disappointed to see the St Johnstone result, as it means they are now a racing certainty to beat Hearts next Saturday.

[MrLeam]

United start the league with a convincing 4-0 win over Arbroath, with Craig Sibbald scoring the fourth. Sibbald has the worst body ink of any footballer (an impressive accolade), including a plant stretching up his neck that makes it look like he drunkenly staggered into his local tattooists and demanded they make him look like he was getting shagged by a triffid.

I must confess I'm largely posting this comment in the hope that this thread lasts long enough that in centuries to come Internet archaeologists will wonder why, amongst all the generic league nonsense, 2023 soccer fans were obsessed with all things Dundee United.

[Felicity, I guess so]

We certainly sprung into action last night. Agree on Sibbald's tats

[Mr Beast]

I hope United go up. When I was at Tannadice last autumn they cuffed Aberdeen 4-0, played really well and I assumed they’d find at least one team they’d finish above. But no.

Maybe it was just a terrible first half from Arbroath but I’d be inclined to think it will take a lot of effort for Jim Goodwin to cock up promotion.

[Gangster Octopus]

I'm very happy that I couldn't find BBC Scotland last night...