Scottish Football 2013-14

[dalliance]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Fairly straightforward explanation actually. During the war he was posted in Scotland and played for Falkirk, the closest club to his base. He was a real star for them and made a huge impression.

After the war the club was keen to bring him back and he was happy to come as he had enjoyed his time in the area. The fee of course was hugely expensive but they raised the fee via fan subscription.

There were all manner of unusual wartime appearances. My late Grandad played in a friendly game for Hamilton Accies with Stanley Mathews guesting as one of his teammates.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Thanks dalliance.

A world record transfer fee funded by fan contributions. Small boys, jumpers for goalposts....

[RobM]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Scottish Junior Cup 1st Round draw (Part 1)

1 Carnoustie v Edinburgh Utd
2 Glenrothes v Livingston
3 Lochgelly Albert v Kelty Hearts
4 West Calder v Sauchie
5 Dundee North End v Ardeer Thistle
6 Irvine Meadow v Scone Thistle
7 Royal Albert v Stoneyburn
8 Kirkcaldy v Falkirk
9 Dundee Violet v St Andrews
10 Maryhill v Dyce
11 Cruden Bay v Glasgow Perthshire
12 Dundee East Craigie v Wishaw Jnr
13 Musselburgh Ath v Arniston Rangers
14 Blairgowrie v Deveronside
15 Crossgates v Vale of Clyde
16 Dunbar v Muirkirk
17 Pollok v Luncarty
18 Glenafton v Inverness City
19 Vale of Leven v Thornton Hibs
20 Blackburn Utd v Largs Thistle
21 Jeanfield Swifts v Yoker Ath
22 Isla Vale v Tranent
23 Kinnoull v Tayport
24 Arthurlie v Bridge of Don
25 Annbank v Kello Rovers
26 Irvine Vics v Greenock
27 Newmains v Cambuslang
28 Forth v Coupar Angus

Part 1 as the Junior FA shown an admirable determination that it shouldn't only be the senior game's administrators that are a shower of daft cunts.

160 teams have entered this season necessitating the need for 32 games in the first round to get to the magical 128 required for a straightforward 128/64/32/16/8 etc. in subsequent rounds. The 4 junior teams entering the senior Scottish Cup get automatic first round byes and aren't included in the first round draw.

Amidst some fanfare Campbell Ogilvie and some SFA finance wonk made the draw as above, you will notice that there are only 28 ties. That's right, the daft bastards stopped the draw 4 ties short taking us to the not so magic figure of 132.

A swift run round to whatever restaurant everybody concerned had adjourned to to toast their ability to deliver hugely on fuckwittery and still get away with it and four further ties were drawn from an ice bucket -

Bonnyrigg Rose v Boness United
Fochabers v Kirriemuir Thistle
Neilston v Port Glasgow
Saltcoats v Blantyre Vics

Tie of the round probably being Bonyrigg v Bo'Ness.

We can only look forward to the 2nd round draw which is probably going to be made by a pissed bingo caller from Denny catching balls fired out from below Nicola Sturgeon's skirt.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

To be fair Rob that would be worth seeing.

Are Clydebank in the Scottish Cup this season then?

[RobM]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AMMS wrote: To be fair Rob that would be worth seeing.

Are Clydebank in the Scottish Cup this season then?

It would I suppose.

Nah, the four Scottish representatives are - Linlithgow (East Champions), Auchinleck (West champs), Culter (North champs) and Girvan.

Girvan get in on an anomaly as they are full members of the SFA and the SJFA, taking out Junior membership when they jumped ship from the South of Scotland League to the juniors around 2005 but retaining their senior membership which confers automatic entry to the Scottish.

The Junior 1st round is a preliminary round really, the majority of clubs get a bye as the 1st round's primary purpose is to get the teams down to a number which allows the tournament to progress (or at least that's the idea.

[Geoffrey de Ste. Croix]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Why would we want to be in a a tinpot trophy competition when we're in the Junior League Cup final and in second in the Super Premier league?

[RobM]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Geoffrey de Ste. Croix wrote: Why would we want to be in a a tinpot trophy competition when we're in the Junior League Cup final and in second in the Super Premier league?

Tinpot trophy my arse, the last time Hearts won it we managed to absolutely smash the dreams of the biggest shower of bastards ever to grace a Scottish fitba' park.

And after we'd beaten Auchinleck we beat Celtic and Hibs as well which was quite nice.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

I visited England today. On my journey home I was passed by two foreign registered people carriers filled with Thistle fans. They had Thistle scarves trailing out the doors and big Thistle flags in the back windows.
Very odd, must have been a friendly or a testimonial I assumed.

I've just realised they were Belgians.

[RobM]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AMMS wrote: I visited England today. On my journey home I was passed by two foreign registered people carriers filled with Thistle fans. They had Thistle scarves trailing out the doors and big Thistle flags in the back windows.
Very odd, must have been a friendly or a testimonial I assumed.

I've just realised they were Belgians.

It would be the preponderance of chips that confused you.

[torres]

Scottish Football 2013-14

September 22 for the League Cup Final Clydebank v Pollok to be played at Maryhill, probably nip along to that one.

Taking in Raith v Falkirk tomorrow. My first visit to Starks as I had to abandon the pre-season visit versus Sheffield United as I got stuck on the Forth Road Bridge with all those fuckin T in the Park bastards. Didn't they realise that a man was trying to get to a football game?

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

No discussion yet of the Jim Spence story?

http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2013/sep/13/bbc-rangers?CMP=twt_gu

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

What's to discuss? Spence is a troll, he trolled and struck gold, I'm sure he's delighted.
He's only on BBC Scotland because they have to broadcast a certain amount of hours from Dundee each month. He's an imbecile, he makes Chick Young look like David Frost.

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AMMS wrote: What's to discuss?

I dunno, maybe the fact that a broadcaster is getting threatened in the street and having to get the police involved because of a comment made on a football show, about a company that was liquidated and bought up by another company.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

I think we all agree there are half wits in society, I live here and come across them everyday. What aspect of them would you like to discuss?

Spence is hardly the first 'celebrity' to get pulled up by a member of the public whilst out and about. Every comment I've read that was put to Spence and his cheerleaders on Twitter for example was measured and accurate, that's probably because I choose not to follow half wits though.

I've very limited sympathy for Spence, he knew what he was saying and he knew it would provoke a reaction, he needs to take responsibility for that and his producers do too, it's their guidelines he broke.

I discovered recently that my five year old son and his classmates in primary 1 had taken to making fun of an older boy in primary 3. This lad is much bigger than them but has some difficulties in his life it's fair to say. As you expect he takes the taunting from the younger kids for a while and eventually loses his rag and chases after them. That's pretty much why the younger boys do it, to get a reaction and a chase.
Needless to say he eventually caught one of them last week and hurt him. The older boy is in trouble with the school now.
When we discovered this was going on we punished my son, he needs to learn what he did has consequences, him and his pals might think it's a harmless laugh but the other child didn't. In his defence he's only five.

Spence is a troll. I heard the broadcast and what he said added nothing to the discussion, he said it to anger Rangers supporters and ingratiate himself with others. Well he succeeded, I hope he's happy. I also hope he loses his job at the BBC because of it and that the police charge anyone who threatened him.

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

I'm not entirely sure why a man deserves to lose his job for referring to a business entity which collapsed into liquidation as having "died". That is, after all, what a liquidation is in law.

Similarly, the fact that you choose only to follow reasonable people on Twitter is all well and good, but would probably not be much consolation to some poor bastard having his life threatened not only on Twitter by numerous individuals, but by some psychotic prick in a public place.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

He deserves to lose his job because he's a poor writer, an awful broadcaster and an even worse presenter. On top of that in this instance he chose to breach the BBC Trust's own adjudication and guidelines on the subject.

He can believe what he wants in his own time, he can write what he wants in the Evening Telegraph or Dundee Utd fanzines but if he's presenting the main football show on BBC Scotland he really needs to follow the rules laid out by the BBC Trust. He seems unable to do that so he should go.

If you genuinely believe a football club is nothing more than a corporate entity then I pity you.

I'm not here to give consolation to Spence, i'm pointing out that he received many, many complaints that weren't threatening or aggressive. As i've already said I hope the law deals with anyone who did threaten him, they shouldn't be hard to find.

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

He deserves to lose his job because he's a poor writer, an awful broadcaster and an even worse presenter.

That's not why you want him sacked, though, is it? Scottish football is full of shit journalists and broadcasters, as we both know, and I don't see you openly hoping aloud for them all to be fired.

If you genuinely believe a football club is nothing more than a corporate entity then I pity you.

If this ever happened to Celtic, I would hope I'd be adult enough to face up to the fact that the whole thing had gone under and something new had taken its place.

Jim Traynor opined in print more than once that Rangers had "died", a few weeks before taking up his PR job. Do you want him sacked too?

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AB2 wrote:

He deserves to lose his job because he's a poor writer, an awful broadcaster and an even worse presenter.

That's not why you want him sacked, though, is it? Scottish football is full of shit journalists and broadcasters, as we both know, and I don't see you openly hoping aloud for them all to be fired.

You've quoted one sentence from my reply, please quote both paragraphs. I made it fairly clear he should get sacked because he broke the rules. Plus he's shit.

AB2 wrote:

If you genuinely believe a football club is nothing more than a corporate entity then I pity you.

If this ever happened to Celtic, I would hope I'd be adult enough to face up to the fact that the whole thing had gone under and something new had taken its place.

I'm sorry but you clearly have absolutely no understanding of this whatsoever. It's surprising actually.

AB2 wrote: Jim Traynor opined in print more than once that Rangers had "died", a few weeks before taking up his PR job. Do you want him sacked too?

If he said it today I'd want him fired yes. Many people, me included, had no idea how'd we'd feel after the CVA failed. I was very disappointed, I'm sure there are posts on here from the time where I said as much. I genuinely didn't know how I'd feel about 'the club' afterwards.

Yet the second the side ran out at Ibrox I realised it didn't matter, none of it. The club were the same, same jerseys, same supporters, same stadium, same name, same manager, and the same feelings, indeed arguably the feelings were enhanced. A football club are so much more than a limited company or a plc, as I said if you don't feel that then I pity you.

Understand something. Spence can believe what he likes, as can you. But as a presenter on the BBC he should be professional and accurate whatever his personal feelings. If he worked for Radio Clyde or STV then it's a matter for his bosses and their advertisers, but he doesn't he works for licence fee funded BBC Scotland. The BBC Trust has already adjudicated on it, the guidelines are there and he knew them. As such he should go.

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

If you want to argue that the club is whatever you happen to say it is, that's a different discussion. We could argue all day about that and I'm not in the mood. You are still following/supporting what's there now and that's totally understandable, most people including myself would do the same in the circumstances.

However, for Jim Spence to say that it had "died" in the sense of being wound up, liquidated, assets sold off, is factually correct and I think it would be fucking outrageous to sack a journalist for that. That's why BBC Scotland itself is giving him its full backing.

Rangers went into administration because the club ran out of money due to appalling, and in some cases deeply dishonest, financial decisions made by the owners. It was subsequently wound up and liquidated. These are facts.

Re Jim Traynor, if it were an appalling and slanderous untruth to say Rangers were dead before he took his new job, why did he say it a number of times? It's not as if he isn't a Rangers man.

Here's that quote for anyone who missed it:

"Rangers FC as we know them are dead. It’s all over. They are about to shut down for ever. They’ll slip into liquidation within the next couple of weeks with a new company emerging but 140 years of history, triumph and tears, will have ended. No matter how Charles Green attempts to dress it up, a newco equals a new club. When the CVA was thrown out Rangers as we know them died. They were closed and a newco must start from scratch although their fans will insist the history will be boxed up with the strips and balls and carried into the future with the new club."

This man is now running the PR dept at Ibrox, and would probably nowadays attempt to deny he ever said such a thing were it not preserved in the print and web archives of the Daily Record.

[RobM]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Spence is a twat who knew what he was doing, he's created a shit-storm and the fall out from that is part of the reaction he sought.

I wouldn't be in favour of sacking him but if he were to go away of his own accord I wouldn't miss his insights into the game. Traynor is also a twat, brought into Rangers by another twat in Charles Green.

Gerry McNee was also a twat and actually managed to get a reaction beyond abuse in the streets when Billy McNeill twatted him for being a twat.

The guy who Jim McLean twatted was perhaps an innocent but Scottish fitba' journos creating the story isn't new. Spence knows that for every action there's a hugely exaggerated reaction when dealing with the Old Firm, if he doesn't then he's even more of a twat than I had him down for.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

This isn't about what you feel or I might feel or what James Traynor might have said 14 months ago, it's about what Jim Spence chose to say on air last week. Why it's an issue is because the 'debate' has already been had, the BBC Trust ruled on it months ago and so BBC employees are expected to follow that. That's why people are angered at Spence.

He shoe-horned his 'dead club' jibe into a sentence in the most convoluted of ways. It added no extra meaning or clarity, he did it purely to annoy people like me and possibly to appeal to people like you. He did this after a number of people had already complained about BBC Scotland's coverage of this and the BBC Trust, the arbiters in these matters, had examined it and published their findings. Spence, more than most, knew this but chose to ignore it and have a troll.

Had it been a light hearted programme like Off The Ball then perhaps it could be explained away as a joke. But it wasn't, he's using his position to score cheap points. He does the BBC a discredit and he does his profession a discredit. he's shown himself to be unable to follow fairly clear guidelines and he's a shit presenter.

I've a problem with BBC presenters choosing to troll certain football supporters and then crying to their mammies when those football supporters get annoyed. His Pastor Niemoller follow up simply underlined what a conceited, arrogant and self absorbed man he is.

[dalliance]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Rangers went into administration because the club ran out of money due to appalling, and in some cases deeply dishonest, financial decisions made by the owners. It was subsequently wound up and liquidated. These are facts.

This is a bit of a simplified telling of the story. The club did not initially run out of money; it had its (manageable) overdraft facility pulled away suddenly from under it by a bank worried it wouldn't see its money again if the big tax case was lost. Which it wasn't.

The dishonest you refer to came from those who followed after and who would not have got near Ibrox had some of the crap from above not happened - which it didn't need to.

[Borracho]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AMMS wrote: or what James Traynor might have said 14 months ago

This is probably a minor point in this discussion, but there's nothing "might have said" about it. Traynor did say it, at considerable length.

AMMS wrote: and possibly to appeal to people like you.

Well, thank you for that one.

AMMS wrote: I've a problem with BBC presenters choosing to troll certain football supporters and then crying to their mammies when those football supporters get annoyed.

I think a slew of death threats, including one physically delivered in person while the recipient was out walking with his wife, constitute something a little more serious than "football supporters getting annoyed".

I mean, seriously -- sack a journo immediately because he made a hurtful remark about your club? Come on. That's the sort of stuff I used to hear from other Celtic fans about Hugh Keevins in the 1990s.

[AMMS]

Scottish Football 2013-14

AB2 wrote:

or what James Traynor might have said 14 months ago

This is probably a minor point in this discussion, but there's nothing "might have said" about it. Traynor did say it, at considerable length.

AMMS wrote: and possibly to appeal to people like you.

Well, thank you for that one.

AMMS wrote: I've a problem with BBC presenters choosing to troll certain football supporters and then crying to their mammies when those football supporters get annoyed.

I think a slew of death threats, including one physically delivered in person while the recipient was out walking with his wife, constitute something a little more serious than "football supporters getting annoyed".

I mean, seriously -- sack a journo immediately because he made a hurtful remark about your club? Come on. That's the sort of stuff I used to hear from other Celtic fans about Hugh Keevins in the 1990s.

No, sack him because he's demonstrated he's unable to do his job properly. What part of that are you struggling to understand? You keep trying to muddy the waters here, but it's really that simple.

[torres]

Scottish Football 2013-14

Roy Greenslade's opinion is that the BBC Trust are wrong in this and as such admit they were mistaken.