Mesut Özil and China

[Nefertiti2]

after speaking out against the Chinese treatment of the UIyghurs and the silence of the Muslim world Özil and Arsenal have become Unperson in China

[URL]https://twitter.com/okwonga/status/1207635516184772609?s=21[/URL]

[ad hoc]

Yes, it's shocking (but Arsenal have been complicit too by distancing themselves from Ozil's comments - which were spot on)

[ooh aah]

I don't get why Arsenal did that. They aren't going to lose out financially, nobody in China buys real replica shirts, and the games are all shown on illegal feeds.

[ursus arctos]

564 million reasons

The Premier League has signed its richest TV deal outside the UK, cashing in on the boom in the sport in China by signing a three-year deal worth $700m (£564m).


The contract, for three years from 2019-20, is with digital broadcaster PPTV, a division of Suning Holdings, and is understood to be worth almost 12 times the existing deal of around $60m over three years with Super Sport Media Group.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...e_iOSApp_Other

[Nocturnal Submission]

Özil knew that his remarks would have serious personal ramifications but went ahead and made them anyway, which has hugely impressed me and in addition helpfully shown the Chinese authorities to be the sort of thin-skinned authoritarians that we fully know them to be.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

There are no serious personal ramifications for Ozil. He's a multi-millionaire with 18 months left on an £18 million a year contract. I think he would probably just like Arsenal to pay him the £27 million they owe him right now, and he can leave,. While the things he is saying about China are broadly correct and need to be said, I'm really not sure that they need to be said by him. Lets face it, he's perfectly comfortable with a spot of genocide against fellow muslims, as long as its his best man that is doing it. Indeed, it's difficult to see how this is remotely going to help. Most arsenal fans who hear him talking about prison camps aren't going to care about China, they're not going to be able to get beyond "I wish you were in a fucking prison camp you wages stealing cunt", because that's where he stands with most of them. He's seeking personal attention and damaging the underlying cause by tacking his damaged brand to it.

Now on the other hand, if Mo Salah, or Sadio Mane were to say something about this, you'd have to get the army in to protect all the chinese takeaways in liverpool. But they're not saying anything. I wonder if they will?

[EIM]

Mo Salah loves a despot though. He's best mates with Ramzan Kadyrov. Most footballers, like most people, have no moral compass.

[Nocturnal Submission]

There are no serious personal ramifications for Ozil. He's a multi-millionaire with 18 months left on an £18 million a year contract. While the things he is saying about China are broadly correct and need to be said, I'm really not sure that they need to be said by him. Lets face it, he's perfectly comfortable with a spot of genocide against fellow muslims, as long as its his best man that is doing it. Indeed, it's difficult to see how this is remotely going to help. Most arsenal fans who hear him talking about prison camps aren't going to care about China, they're not going to be able to get beyond "I wish you were in a fucking prison camp you wages stealing cunt", because that's where he stands with most of them. He's seeking personal attention and damaging the underlying cause by tacking his damaged brand to it.

Now on the other hand, if Mo Salah, or Sadio Mane were to say something about this, you'd have to get the army in to protect all the chinese takeaways in liverpool. But they're not saying anything. I wonder if they will?

Well, I mean his comments will affect his income, his relationship with his club and sponsors and possibly his future employability, amongst other things. And suggesting that the only reason that he said what he did was attention-seeking is risible nonsense. He could have made a donation to a homeless shelter or trotted along to a food bank with a van full of M & S goodies if that was his aim. Maybe, just maybe, he felt that what was happening in Western China was very wrong and that the world was averting its gaze to avoid upsetting a thin-skinned economic power.

I can't say I'm too fussed as to what Arsenal fans think but I suspect that the ones with a slightly wider view of the world than their club's next on-field capitulation and it's commercial potential in the Far East will applaud the courage and honesty of Özil's comments and his preparedness to put his head about the parapet.

[Patrick Thistle]

But as TAB says he's very selective in his outrage. He hasn't criticised Erdogan for launching bombing raids on the Kurds for example.

It's a bit like Pep wanting self determination for Catalans while working for an Emirate.

[Sporting]

The message is spot on; it's just that it's the wrong messenger.

[Nocturnal Submission]

But as TAB says he's very selective in his outrage. He hasn't criticised Erdogan for launching bombing raids on the Kurds for example.

It's a bit like Pep wanting self determination for Catalans while working for an Emirate.

Well, we don't know that he even opposes that, AFAIK, but even if he did who amongst us would be brave enough to say or do something that might put our families at risk. I'm not suggesting that Özil is uniquely courageous but he's certainly a bit more than most, especially in this instance.

[ad hoc]

If this raises the profile of the issue then frankly it's a good thing. Criticise him for other political views if you will but it's also OK to be thankful for him doing this too

[Nefertiti2]

There are no serious personal ramifications for Ozil. He's a multi-millionaire with 18 months left on an £18 million a year contract. Most arsenal fans who hear him talking about prison camps aren't going to care about China, they're not going to be able to get beyond "I wish you were in a fucking prison camp you wages stealing cunt", because that's where he stands with most of them. He's seeking personal attention and damaging the underlying cause by tacking his damaged brand to it.

Now on the other hand, if Mo Salah, or Sadio Mane were to say something about this, you'd have to get the army in to protect all the chinese takeaways in liverpool. But they're not saying anything. I wonder if they will?

i think this comment is out of order for a number of reasons.

I don’t think Arsenal fans would say “ I wish you’re in a prison camp you wage stealing cunt” and frankly you putting the two things on the same footing makes you a piece of shit. Adding racism to your childish dislike of Liverpool makes you a cunt as well. Fucking behave yourself.

[Snake Plissken]

Several people need to calm down and discuss the issue. And chucking around cultural stereotypes for a cheap laugh is right out of order.

[G-Man]

Well, we don't know that he even opposes that, AFAIK, but even if he did who amongst us would be brave enough to say or do something that might put our families at risk. I'm not suggesting that Özil is uniquely courageous but he's certainly a bit more than most, especially in this instance.

I think we can pretty safely say that Ozil is generally cool with what his friend -- and best man at his wedding -- Erdogan is doing.

[Nocturnal Submission]

I think we can pretty safely say that Ozil is generally cool with what his friend -- and best man at his wedding -- Erdogan is doing.

Quite possibly. I get the impression that attacking the Kurds is rarely a vote-loser in Turkey or amongst the Turkish diaspora. However, I'd hesitate to assume anything about Özil's views purely on the basis of his friendships.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I don’t think Arsenal fans would say “ I wish you’re in a prison camp you wage stealing cunt” and frankly you putting the two things on the same footing makes you a piece of shit. Adding racism to your childish dislike of Liverpool makes you a cunt as well. Fucking behave yourself.

If you were half as smart as you are angry, you would have realised that I'm not putting the two things on the same footing. I don't think football is more important than genocide. I'm making the point that if Person A, who has achieved prominence in Activity B, seeks to use his reputational capital, to make People interested in Activity B aware of Event X, People who are primarily interested in Activity B, and almost entirely unaware of Event X are going to filter this message through Person A's standing within the context of Activity B. This isn't about Arsenal fans, this isn't about liverpool fans, and it's only partially about football. this is just how people work. And when Person's A's message about Event X seem to conflict with his relationship with someone who seems hell bent of doing some of the worst part of event X himself, then it becomes even more problematic. I can't take him seriously at all, and I've been largely convinced of much of the point he's making since 2000, when I was first told that the chinese govt was treating the uighirs every bit as badly as they were the tibetans..

Mesut Ozil is not popular among arsenal fans. Things are not going well for arsenal, and there is a marked tendency in football to focus blame on the most senior player and scapegoat them. That's probably the worst position to be in if you are trying to draw attention to something. If fPaul Pogba (also muslim) were to have done this I don't think it would help that cause. That's just how angry people work. Your message has to get through "What is that cunt saying now? I hate him so much" filter. I mention Salah and mane, not because they play for liverpool, but because they are two muslim players, who are the direct opposites of Ozil in terms of reputational capital. They are unambiguously adored by their fans. There's nothing that would obstruct any message that they gave out. If they played for manchester united, I would have said Manchester.and maybe mentioned Wings. .

EIM, Salah nearly quit the Egyptian team over that incident. He was not impressed at all with that stunt. Though given China's growing influence in Egypt, I suspect that we may not be hearing that much from him. Coming from a military dictatorship has its downsides.

[Janik]

Presumably people in the US are drawing parallels between Ozil's comments and China's bullying anti-free speech reaction to them and the failure of Premier League and Arsenal to fully support Ozil and denounce China in turn for their bullying reaction to legitimate criticism to the fall-out from Daryl Morey's comments about the Hong Kong protests and China's subsequent demands of action against him by the NBA. For instance, LeBron James, normally a reliable guy on political issues, getting the tone of his response wrong. China's money clearly gives it amounts of power that are rather worrying. We need more clubs to take Koeln's stance, that Chinese money is too washed in blood and comes with too many strings demanding that people pretend otherwise to accept. Though, as TAB implies, Football struggles with such a conscience because it would be very selective currently.

That said, whatever Ozil's hypocrisies, pointing them out here is Whataboutery. He is on the money on this issue, his other flaws can be left aside for a bit.

[Nefertiti2]

If you were half as smart as you are angry, you would have realised that I'm not putting the two things on the same footing. I don't think football is more important than genocide. I'm making the point that if Person A, who has achieved prominence in Activity B, seeks to use his reputational capital, to make People interested in Activity B aware of Event X, People who are primarily interested in Activity B, and almost entirely unaware of Event X are going to filter this message through Person A's standing within the context of Activity B. This isn't about Arsenal fans, this isn't about liverpool fans, and it's only partially about football. this is just how people work. And when Person's A's message about Event X seem to conflict with his relationship with someone who seems hell bent of doing some of the worst part of event X himself, then it becomes even more problematic. I can't take him seriously at all, and I've been largely convinced of much of the point he's making since 2000, when I was first told that the chinese govt was treating the uighirs every bit as badly as they were the tibetans..

Mesut Ozil is not popular among arsenal fans. Things are not going well for arsenal, and there is a marked tendency in football to focus blame on the most senior player and scapegoat them. That's probably the worst position to be in if you are trying to draw attention to something. If fPaul Pogba (also muslim) were to have done this I don't think it would help that cause. That's just how angry people work. Your message has to get through "What is that cunt saying now? I hate him so much" filter. I mention Salah and mane, not because they play for liverpool, but because they are two muslim players, who are the direct opposites of Ozil in terms of reputational capital. They are unambiguously adored by their fans. There's nothing that would obstruct any message that they gave out. If they played for manchester united, I would have said Manchester.and maybe mentioned Wings. .

EIM, Salah nearly quit the Egyptian team over that incident. He was not impressed at all with that stunt. Though given China's growing influence in Egypt, I suspect that we may not be hearing that much from him. Coming from a military dictatorship has its downsides.

Don't try and justify your racism.

[Lang Spoon]

If you were half as smart as you are angry, you would have realised that I'm not putting the two things on the same footing. I don't think football is more important than genocide. I'm making the point that if Person A, who has achieved prominence in Activity B, seeks to use his reputational capital, to make People interested in Activity B aware of Event X, People who are primarily interested in Activity B, and almost entirely unaware of Event X are going to filter this message through Person A's standing within the context of Activity B. This isn't about Arsenal fans, this isn't about liverpool fans, and it's only partially about football. this is just how people work. And when Person's A's message about Event X seem to conflict with his relationship with someone who seems hell bent of doing some of the worst part of event X himself, then it becomes even more problematic. I can't take him seriously at all, and I've been largely convinced of much of the point he's making since 2000, when I was first told that the chinese govt was treating the uighirs every bit as badly as they were the tibetans..

Mesut Ozil is not popular among arsenal fans. Things are not going well for arsenal, and there is a marked tendency in football to focus blame on the most senior player and scapegoat them. That's probably the worst position to be in if you are trying to draw attention to something. If fPaul Pogba (also muslim) were to have done this I don't think it would help that cause. That's just how angry people work. Your message has to get through "What is that cunt saying now? I hate him so much" filter. I mention Salah and mane, not because they play for liverpool, but because they are two muslim players, who are the direct opposites of Ozil in terms of reputational capital. They are unambiguously adored by their fans. There's nothing that would obstruct any message that they gave out. If they played for manchester united, I would have said Manchester.and maybe mentioned Wings. .

EIM, Salah nearly quit the Egyptian team over that incident. He was not impressed at all with that stunt. Though given China's growing influence in Egypt, I suspect that we may not be hearing that much from him. Coming from a military dictatorship has its downsides.

sometimes less is more. The Chinese takeaway bit was out of order, most fans of all teams are cunts and Indont think Ozil's intended audience was them anyway.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

That said, whatever Ozil's hypocrisies, pointing them out here is Whataboutery. He is on the money on this issue, his other flaws can be left aside for a bit.

Hmm is it? Whataboutery is trying to excuse your own atrocity, by pointing out that the other person is worse. For it to be whataboutery, I'd need to be motivated by a desire to defend the honour of China from slanderous lies.

I'm just profoundly cynical about the political statements of someone who is prepared to be so publicly identified with Erdogan, and Everything that we know about him. Then again I'm particularly cynical about people who make statements that I agree with, because maybe it's me that they're trying to con. So I find myself particularly cynical about a story which seems to have wound up zipping straight past the persecution of the uighirs and become primarily about a millionaire footballer being erased by the chinese govt, and his club desperately trying to avoid the same fate for commercial reasons.

[Diable Rouge]

Don't try and justify your racism.

Isn't it stereotyping of Liverpool fans, rather than racism?

[ad hoc]

I think the popularity (or lack thereof) of Ozil amongst match going Arsenal fans is irrelevant . He's one of the biggest most globally recognised stars in the Premier League and as such his views get paid attention to. So it's a good thing that he's spoken out. And it would be a good thing if others backed him up

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Who exactly am I supposed to be racist against.

Isn't it stereotyping of Liverpool fans, rather than racism?

I would have thought it abundantly clear at this point that I don't see a fundamental difference between liverpool fans and man utd fans. singing about lukaku's penis and the widespread embrace of Jose's football fascism philosophy does not speak particularly well of man utd fans in their narrowest sense, and their widest sense.

[G-Man]

It's best not to engage with that slander machine.