Gary Speed

[RobM]

Gary Speed

I've no real connection here but everything about this makes me feel desperately sad. That a man with so much to live for felt that it wasn't worth it anymore..

[Bored Of Education]

Gary Speed

I think that you have put very succinctly what a lot of us feel, Rob

[Ray de Galles]

Gary Speed

Lovely piece by James Brown.

[Arturo]

Gary Speed

The running theme through many of these posts (plus myself and many of my friends) is that despite having no link to the man, his teams, or country, what happened today has really touched them. I can't remember the last time a football story has had a profound affect on so many people in this way. Possibly Sir Bobby Robson passing on, but I'm not really sure.

It's left me upset on various levels. Perhaps because he's only a couple of years older than myself. Maybe because I've been in a really dark place on occasions. Possibly because I've seen friends close to the edge and know a couple who are really suffering at the moment. To see something as personal as this played out in the public eye is unsettling and heartbreaking, and it hurts me to think what he went through and what his family are going through now.

A really sad day.

[wingco]

Gary Speed

Nice piece indeed, Jorge.

As for James's, I'd agree with him that although some form of severe depression would seem to be the only way to account for Gary Speed taking his own life, that is pure speculation at the moment. So far as I know there has been no hint, amid the outpouring of tributes to the man that he was in any way suffering from the sort condition that clearly afflicts Stan Collymore. It is baffling - how can a person go from appearing right as rain, on screen and off, on Football Focus in the morning to taking his own life in the evening? One can't help but be intensely curious, esp in communities like ours with our need to seek out news-behind-the-news but who would want to be the the reporter, the prober, the intruder, who tried at this time to get to the bottom of it? It's none of our business, really. Maybe we'll just have to remain baffled.

In fairness, I think there's been a unanimity in the reaction to GS's tragic death, and in the depth of feeling across the board. Numbed, shocked, stunned - the same words over and over. There's been a unanimity, too, in the nature of the tributes, the quality of the guy that comes through that rings utterly true, far above and beyond speaking nicely of the departed. The same things come through again, over and over - his generosity to fans, his dedication to his sport, his decency, the overall example he set - a player whose career was unusually prolonged thanks to the fitness levels he maintained, and who therefore felt like a survivor, from an earlier, more gracious professional era before the money and hype machine that is modern Premier League football airlifted "star" players into a new stratosphere of remoteness.

As for the Howard Kendall thing; not sure if I should have mentioned it, if it isn't well known. But a reading of Richard Williams' Guardian piece today and Gary Speed's Wiki entry should tell you more than Speed himself, honourable bloke that he was, chose to say in his lifetime.

Anyway, awful news. Sure I'm not the only one to have felt shaken up by it all day, despite having no club or country affiliation to the man.

[wingco]

Gary Speed

Having said that, the spotlight on depression, which, as it so happens anyway was being shed via Collymore and The Secret Footballer, is, of course, valuable.

[Reed John]

Gary Speed

I don't find it hard to see how a guy could appear right as rain in the morning and then, apparently, kill himself that evening. It is shocking, to be sure, but not surprising, if that makes sense. My own experiences with depression and reading about suggests two possibilities. One is that he simply put on a good front. The other is that the depression came and went and his struggle with it was like that of a busy waiter on roller skates and today was the day when all of the dishes came crashing down. I'm not trying to joke. I felt that way in college and it's simply the only metaphor I can come up with.

I guess the point is that "the signs" aren't always as apparent as we'd hope. I'm not sure that is at all helpful. I guess it just means that we should all pay attention to each other a bit more.

[steveeeeeeeee]

Gary Speed

Hugo Viana pays tribute after the final whistle of Porto v Braga.

http://www.maisfutebol.iol.pt/videos/video/13527427/1

[David Agnew]

Gary Speed

longeared wrote:

Absolutely appalling. Even though he is associated with the two clubs that might be regarded as my team's rivals, this has really upset me.

Hope the Mail doesn't write some horrific "how can footballers be depressed on all that money" article this week.

Just in case anyone's wondering if the Mail are likely to change as a result of Leveson - they've got the long lenses out on the family home.

[Soccer Scrimmage]

Gary Speed

I am very sorry to hear about this. It reminds of me of the suicide this summer of longtime Baltimore Orioles (baseball) player, general manager, and broadcaster Mike Flanagan, who was almost universally considered one of the nicest, funniest, and smartest people in the sport. During the discussion of that tragedy, it was clear that folks often mistakenly believe that people who display certain personality traits are necessarily 'well,' when that is often not the case.

For instance, I can say from personal experience that being gracious and engaging is often an indicator of predisposal to depressive episodes rather than evidence of strong mental health. In my case, I work very hard to be funny and personable because I am obsessed with not letting people down. The flip side of this is that when I feel like I have let people down it crushes me.

In addition, people who are in the depths of a depression and are exhibiting the symptoms we typically associate with a 'depressed person' often find it hard to kill themselves, just because they have been sapped of all energy. It is the folks who are on the border -- who still have the energy required for suicide, but who are not well mentally -- who are the most serious risks. These people often do not seem to be bad off.

That second point was made in a lecture by Stanford neuroscientist Robert Sapolsky that I've linked to below. For anyone with an hour and an interest in the basics of depression, I can't recommend it highly enough.

[statto99]

Gary Speed

I'd been away from news outlets for 24 hours until I switched on 606 this evening. An Everton player had died, clearly an international and well known. My gosh that's very sad. To be taking over a show like this it must be someone like, blimey, Alan Ball? No, sadly he already passed away a few years ago.

Everton and Leeds??? Crikey, err, Bobby Collins? Tremendously sad, altough he is about 80 now, I think, so sadly not a surprise. Strange to be getting this much coverage, though. Not really a colour television era player.

Everton, Leeds and Newcastle? Err... that's Gary Speed... isn't it? It can't be. Must be wrong. But who else...?

Ohhhhhhhhhhh no...

I missed Football Focus yesterday, so didn't have that particular jolt, but I can't tell you much about what happened over the next few miles of driving.

As for so many, one of my very favourite Leeds players. As I watched him forge a fine career after he'd moved on I was always kind of jealous that he'd left us. He should have been the core of a second wave Leeds team after the older guard had moved on, but it was not to be. At least he got his championship medal with us in that unforgettable 91/92 seaason. One of my strongst memories of him is actually Howard Wilkinson trying out a pony-tailed Speed at centre half in the following pre-season against teams like Sampdoria. That and a whole bunch of bullet headers and volleys.

There are so many fine tributes on here already and all I can do is echo them and express my own shocked dismay at his early passing and deep sympathy to all those who knew him.

[Uncle Ethan]

Gary Speed

Dreadful, dreadful news. It is no surprise to me at all that someone can give an outward impression of all being well, but be internally desperate. Putting a ganme face on is what many depressives do, especially those with families or friends. I could throw a switch at will to appear the life and soul of the party while in my head I was drowning in darkness.

The feeling you are burdening others can sometimes be a trigger, not a help. This is why the anonymity of the internet can help, offering as it does a way to share feelings without making things worse.

I am much more comfortable nowadays in telling people I suffer from depression but there are still people close to me who have no idea how bad things were at one stage.

It is not that they wouldn't want to help, but you just convince yourself they wouldn't understand. When you cannot comprehend how you get to such a place it is sometimes very difficult to get to the point where you think anyone else will.

I do think the word suicide should be banned. It invariably brings blame to the victim. If people said he/she died of depression, just as we say someone died of a heart attack, then that might focus attention on the illness that leads people to such a dark place.

It might also help people realise that just as you seek proper, qualified, help for a physical illness, so you should for depression.

I'd urge anyone here who who ever starts to feel depressed to seek professional help early. There is a way back from the most desperate darkness but you need someone to help you find it.

You'd go to a doctor if you had lump on your testicles or on your breast. Don't treat depression any differently.

[G-Man]

Gary Speed

Last night I wrote a long piece about my experience with suicide (like Sean of the Shed and Tictactoe, I lost a parent to suicide), and about the the signs, or lack thereof, of depression in people who end it all. Then my Internet crashed while it was posting, and it is gone.

Anyway, Reed makes a point I observed in my mother, about masking the depression. I knew my mother was depressed, though she never sought treatment (and in 1984 depression wasn't really that well understood). Despite a history of suicide attempts (when I was ten, I saw my father finding her unconscious following an attempt) and knowing that her life had fallen apart, nobody had any idea that she might end her life.

A letter she wrote shortly before she died arrived in London, where I lived at the time. It wasn't cheerful, to be sure, but nor did it hint at what she might do a few days later.

Perhaps Gary Speed was depressed and masked it well. Perhaps he reacted to a situation of real dread (finances, health, domestic). If the former is the case, then the discussion might help address the stigma of depression (it could also exacerbate it). If the latter applies, it's none of our business.

Finally, very little is being said about Speed's family and friends. Of course, it is implicit that our hearts go out to them. But there is very little insight into how the survivors in a suicide situation deal with it. Because of the stigma associated with suicide, many won't talk about it. And, to be honest, it's difficult to talk about it, because there are so many different emotions, some conflicting, involved.

So my hope is that Speed's death will help in fighting the stigma not only of depression but also of suicide and in bringing to greater attention the battles of the surviors – which might mean having to deal with what might well be prurient reporting on matters that are really none of our business.

Oh, and if anybody throws around the line of suicide being "the coward's way out", do not feel obliged by social mores not to visit extreme violence (physical or verbal) on them.

[G-Man]

Gary Speed

I do think the word suicide should be banned. It invariably brings blame to the victim. If people said he/she died of depression, just as we say someone died of a heart attack, then that might focus attention on the illness that leads people to such a dark place.

I know where you're coming from, UE, but not all suicides are due to depression. You are, of course, entirely right about turning the attention on depression as an illness.

[Max Payne]

Gary Speed

Depression is something that hits me a few times a year, for a few days. It comes on suddenly and just an offhand remark from someone can set it off or I can feel it creeping on me. The wife thinks it's stress mostly but I've always had it. Stress is the bit where I've actually punched my PC monitor out after a crash and kicked the box around the home-office. Anyone who's experienced Windows 7 will immediately recognise the difference. But even though I feel like absolute shit for a few days while I drown in myself and inertia I always get back and I don't think mine is serious after all I'm not on meds or anything. I don't particularly want it to come out because the attention that would come with it, people thinking I'm mad or something. I'm not. It's just that despite moving to a foreign country and meeting the love of my life and even having a child on the way after 5 bouts of IVF it all sometimes feels like I'm not good enough and that nothing I do is good enough.

I feel for Gary Speed's family. I never knew the guy personally but he wasn't exactly in your John Terry and Rio Ferdinand categories. Just seemed like a nice normal guy making a decent stab at International management. If all that he had wan't enough it makes you wonder what would be. Certainly whenever my own life hits a clear patch I always invent problems for myself. It's the way.

I think of myself as a sincere person but I can actually be incredibly inept with people. Unfortunately being reminded of specific incidents can set me down for a few days boiling in anger and then turning that on myself. Let's just say I make a rank first impression and leave it at that.

[Sits]

Gary Speed

I've worn my laptop battery reading this tread from start to finish, and would just like to thank everyone for discussing this tragedy in such a measured and compassionate way.

I've nothing more to add, it's just a shockingly sad situation.

[Bored Of Education]

Gary Speed

I'm not. It's just that despite moving to a foreign country and meeting the love of my life and even having a child on the way after 5 bouts of IVF it all sometimes feels like I'm not good enough and that nothing I do is good enough.

Firstly, fantastic news about your child, Max.

Moving home is well-known for being one of the most stressful situations, certainly moving to another country, and seeing that that (well, not to another country) and a series of failed IVF was what did for me ending up having the period of debilitating panic attacks that I am now medicated for, I completely understand where you are coming from.

I don't now, maybe I presented a good 'front' all that time. I know that I didn't to my wife and that front was starting to slip to my son which is why I chose to go down the medication route. I see photos now and I had lost so much weight that I can't believe that no-one would have seen that something was wrong but you don't, do you? We all have our own issues, stresses and responsibilities that if someone says that they are OK, we tend to take it for granted.

As far as the Mail is concerned, when are we going to get a press regulatory body with teeth to stomp all over these cunts?

[meregreen]

Gary Speed

wingco wrote:

As for the Howard Kendall thing; not sure if I should have mentioned it, if it isn't well known. But a reading of Richard Williams' Guardian piece today and Gary Speed's Wiki entry should tell you more than Speed himself, honourable bloke that he was, chose to say in his lifetime.

No one really knows what happened with him at Everton, but the strong suspicion is that Kendall's drinking was directly responsible for Speed's abrupt departure to Newcastle.

The measure of Speed the man is that he preferred his name to be dragged through the mud and pilloried rather than the club he had always supported. The measure of Everton the club, is that they allowed this to happen. The least he deserves is that they right that wrong.

Great player, great man. What terribly sad news.

[E10 Rifle]

Gary Speed

Not much to add really. One of the most upsetting football stories for a long time. Speed fitted no popular stereotype of a depressed or 'troubled' player, which perhaps makes it more shocking, but perhaps it shouldn't.

As a footballer and coach, he was wholly admirable - versatile, skillful and intelligent, and seems to have been widely liked everywhere, particularly I guess in Wales, where he performed excellently in both useless and promising teams alike, and was clearly building something encouraging as a manager. Just really sad.

[Spearmint Rhino]

Gary Speed

Talk Sport just ran a Gary Speed tribute montage at the end of the Keys & Gray show. The backing music? Adele bellowing "Never mind, I'll find someone like you..."

Leaving aside the sheer cut-and-paste laziness of picking the song which has become Britain's all-purpose Sad Song For Sad Occasions, the lyrics are perhaps not the appropriate message for this one.

[ian.64]

Gary Speed

Having said that, the spotlight on depression, which, as it so happens anyway was being shed via Collymore and The Secret Footballer, is, of course, valuable.

While I can't say I'm a fan of Collymore's punditry, I think that The Secret Footballer's column has been exceptional from week to week, and that also extends to the current column about depression. Timely - sadly so.

I was truly shocked by Speed's death, even though I must admit I wasn't an ardent follower of his career, but the sheer unexpectedness of it - taking in the fact that his stock was rightly rising with the Welsh national side - was inexplicable. Even allowing for other factors I wouldn't dare speculate on, the impression that Speed gave in his life - a life that had no frills, no bouts of prima-donna behaviour and had a huge lack of egotism - reveals absolutely no indication of why he'd do such a thing.

Condolencies to his loved ones.

RIP.

[Mr Beast]

Gary Speed

I can't add anything to what's already been written, but I'm finding this extremely upsetting. I've had my own family struggles with depression recently and it is an absolute nightmare. Though more so for the person suffering.

Gary Speed was a very good player, but by all accounts an excellent man. We can't afford to lose too many more of those.

Jorge and Ian - nice work.

[Hamish! Dougal!]

Gary Speed

I have it on reasonable authority that The Secret Footballer columns are the work of Michael Turner.

These shit awful rumours about an upcoming exposé in the press about Speed's private life won't go away. Who's to say he'd been informed of it, and that was the tipping point? Wrong to surmise, but you just never know. My brother's bout of depression has been caused by a whole myriad of circumstances, but he was tipped into a suicide attempt by having the piss taken out of him for losing his way back to the coach after the rugby at Old Trafford last month.

Depression is such a complex array of feelings and moods, it probably can never be fully understood.

RIP Gary Speed.

[Torcida]

Gary Speed

What I really, really struggle to understand is how any parent could do that to their children.

[Squarewheelbike]

Gary Speed

Torcida wrote:

What I really, really struggle to understand is how any parent could do that to their children.

Then maybe you really, really struggle to comprehend what has happened!