2022: Nasty case of Qatar

[Uncle Ethan]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

Having passed through Doha at 5.30am in July and 2.30am in August I can confirm the obvious. Nobody is playing there in summer - even at that time of day. It's not just the games, it's the training.

I live in a country where football is a summer game and summers are hot. I have also been on pre-season tours to very humid countries. There is no way teams are playing that number of games in that period of time in that climate.

[Janik]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

How Platini has put that message across is unnecessarily aggressive, but there is more than a kernel of truth in his main point. The English/northern European calendar shouldn't be inviolate if it precludes some areas of the World from hosting World Cups as they are climatically unsuitable in the two month gap that calendar allows.

That doesn't mean Qatar should be hosting in 2022, though.

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

"our" calendar? Does France play February to November now?

Just realised how long this thread (and this debate) has actually been going when I saw the OP.

[Janik]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

France will have to rejig as well, clearly. The difference being that the FFF appear much more willing to be flexible.

[Borracho]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

What an absolute waste of space Platini is. He's already destroyed the European Championships and now he's trying to fuck the entire football calendar as well.

Cunt.

[Jah Womble]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

What Rogin said. The sheer arrogance and stupidity of this idea is only surpassed by Platini's plan to play the Euros across the continent.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

Well if they can't host a summer world cup because of their summer climate then fuck them. Ireland can't host a world cup because we're too small and poor. I don't see sepp blatter putting his hand in FIFA's pocket to help us out.

at what point in the process was it mentioned that the world cup would have to be moved?

[longeared]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

Presumably the 2020-21 season will also have to be disrupted for the Confederations Cup to also be held in January?

[imp]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

longeared wrote: Presumably the 2020-21 season will also have to be disrupted for the Confederations Cup to also be held in January?

That's an excellent point. But if Qatar doggedly manages to stay as the summer 2022 venue, the previous year's dress rehearsal would be the final point at which it would become clear how unfeasible this whole idea is - as players start passing out, fans don't show up, and anyone having gay sex is thrown in the slammer.

The idea of Qatar 2022 still seems so ludicrous that I can't bring myself to believe it's really going to happen. But holding out hope that someone on the Fifa ExCom will finally confess he took a fat brown envelope from a shady sheikh is just myopic optimism.

[dalliance]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

How Platini has put that message across is unnecessarily aggressive, but there is more than a kernel of truth in his main point. The English/northern European calendar shouldn't be inviolate if it precludes some areas of the World from hosting World Cups as they are climatically unsuitable in the two month gap that calendar allows

.

If a World Cup is proposed to be played outside its usual June / July slot then FIFA get the necessary agreements with the clubs and regional confederations and they invite bids based upon this criteria.

But they haven't. They asked for bids based on the usual slot and various countries bid in good faith on this basis. If they are now saying the tender document was flawed then that's their fault, not the fault of anyone else. What they need to do is redraft the spec from scratch and put it out to tender again.

[dalliance]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

The idea of Qatar 2022 still seems so ludicrous that I can't bring myself to believe it's really going to happen. But holding out hope that someone on the Fifa ExCom will finally confess he took a fat brown envelope from a shady sheikh is just myopic optimism.

I have always assumed that as a lot of the Exec Com are pretty old, most thought they would be happily retired with their big stashes of cash leaving it for someone else to clear up.

[dalliance]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

That's an excellent point. But if Qatar doggedly manages to stay as the summer 2022 venue, the previous year's dress rehearsal would be the final point at which it would become clear how unfeasible this whole idea is - as players start passing out, fans don't show up, and anyone having gay sex is thrown in the slammer.

I'd also like to see Gordon Taylor coming out of the bookies and speaking on behalf of some of the players he represents who might be expected to play in those conditions.

[imp]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

[quote=dalliance post=831188]

They asked for bids based on the usual slot and various countries bid in good faith on this basis. If they are now saying the tender document was flawed then that's their fault, not the fault of anyone else. What they need to do is redraft the spec from scratch and put it out to tender again.

Spot on.

[Crystal Staples]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

We respect your calendar for 150 years

An 1863 starting point is stretching it a bit, considering England didn't give a shit about international tournaments until 87 years later.

[David Agnew]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

dalliance wrote:

There are many countries on 3 continents that already have the infrastructure and know-how to host a world cup on short notice: USA, france, germany, italy, UK, Spain, Japan, Korea.

Apart from England, most of those are quick re-vists of tournaments from within the past 25 years or so though. Italy and Spain most definitely don't have the infrastructure and could never commit to the spending that was required in this financial climate.

As well there are about a dozen countries that could definitely build up the infrastructure like Australia, Brazil, Argentina, China, Mexico, Turkey. Lack of host countries is not a serious constraint to more frequent tournaments.

Mexico struggled badly hosting the 1986 World Cup, a tournament this size has grown way too big for them or Argentina. Brazil as I mentioned is going to be disastrous for getting around a country the size of a continent because their transport infrastructure is shocking.

Turkey looked at bidding for the Euros in 2020. that would have been a push for them, but a World Cup is way, way bigger. Do we really want to go to China for anything?

Mexico had less time to organise it than any other nation had had since World War 2, after Columbia declared they could not host it. Not to mention the massive earthquake a few months before.

dalliance wrote: And there are doubts about all of those. Brazil's organisation is questionable and their transport infrastructure is disastrous. Qatar is an all-round bad joke and it's not going to be much fun in Russia if their ineptness with the Sochi Winter Olympics sets a precedent.

Yeah, those Sochi Winter Olympics were a joke.

[garcia]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

platini is such a cunt. i'm not english, and even i find his "i will say something to the english" infuriating. he seems to be pretending that what is happening here is the rest of the world is standing up to english imperial arrogance. actually what is happening here is revulsion at how deep platini's got his snout in the trough.

they voted for qatar to host the world cup even though they knew it's impossible to host it there. we all know why that happened. now they try to sneak through a change to winter with a sort of shrug and a "well, what can you do? it's impossible to play there in summer!" as though the world cup being given to a country that can't actually host it had nothing to do with them, and all they can do now given the mess they've inherited is find some kind of compromise solution. and when everybody immediately sees this for the bullshit it is, platini tries deflect the criticism with this "when are the english going to take their boots off our necks" stuff.

dalliance is right, they need to admit they fucked it up and put it out to tender again. if they don't all the other countries who bid for it should get together and sue the FIFA exco.

the thing is that i wouldn't really have a problem with a winter world cup per se, if qatar had made that part of their case from the beginning. they could have said: why is the world cup always confined to northern hemisphere summer, this discriminates against too many low-latitude countries. OK, there are sound calendar reasons for keeping the tournaments in a regular slot in the year, but hey people we put a man on the moon, let's work together on this one and try something different! then they could have made their case without having to lie. i mean it's now apparent that their entire bid was fucking fiction. air conditioned stadia. they might as well have said sinbad's roc would flap around fanning people with its wings.

why couldn't they just have told the truth? people might have laughed but it doesn't really matter whether people think your idea is serious, all that matters is whether the guys you have bribed can be trusted to remember which way to vote.

[dalliance]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

David Agnew. You've quoted me several times above but I did not actually make any of those posts.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

he seems to be pretending that what is happening here is the rest of the world is standing up to english imperial arrogance. actually what is happening here is revulsion at how deep platini's got his snout in the trough.

michel Platini yesterday.

[Reed John]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

What happened to the "air conditioned outdoor venues" idea? Is that technically and economically feasible or is it more like this?

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

I still think they were planning just to play all the games at midnight, like they've done with European finals in Greece and Turkey.

[jason voorhees]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

That's what I can't figure out, why they just don't play during 10pm - 4am Qatar time.

[anton pulisov]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

dalliance wrote:

There are many countries on 3 continents that already have the infrastructure and know-how to host a world cup on short notice: USA, france, germany, italy, UK, Spain, Japan, Korea.

Apart from England, most of those are quick re-vists of tournaments from within the past 25 years or so though. Italy and Spain most definitely don't have the infrastructure and could never commit to the spending that was required in this financial climate.

As well there are about a dozen countries that could definitely build up the infrastructure like Australia, Brazil, Argentina, China, Mexico, Turkey. Lack of host countries is not a serious constraint to more frequent tournaments.

Mexico struggled badly hosting the 1986 World Cup, a tournament this size has grown way too big for them or Argentina. Brazil as I mentioned is going to be disastrous for getting around a country the size of a continent because their transport infrastructure is shocking.

Turkey looked at bidding for the Euros in 2020. that would have been a push for them, but a World Cup is way, way bigger. Do we really want to go to China for anything?

South Africa managed to make a decent fist of the World Cup. They're hardly a world power.

It can't the that difficult to stage, surely. You need six 40,000 seaters and two 60,000 seaters. There are plenty of countries that can pull that off. World Cup '98 was played in some fairly shit stadia and nobody seemed to mind. FIFA need to stop demanding that World Cups are hosted in 10 brand spanking new stadia.

I really hope Ireland qualify for Euro 2016. Get a proper manager, field the best players, play in a summer a tournament in the home of crepes and red wine.

[Seven Saxon Kings]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

It's not just the grounds though, you need a lot of transport infrastructure, hotel rooms, etc. You're right though about the stupidity of FIFA wanting all new stadiums that mostly end up becoming white elephants.

[Borracho]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote: I still think they were planning just to play all the games at midnight, like they've done with European finals in Greece and Turkey.

Greece and Turkey are both two hours ahead of Britain and one hour ahead of western Europe. The 1983 final kicked off at 9.15pm local time. The 2005 and 2007 finals kicked off at 9.45pm.

[Borracho]

2022: Nasty case of Qatar

Bryaniek wrote: World Cup '98 was played in some fairly shit stadia and nobody seemed to mind.

Which ones?

I think you mean USA 94. The Stanford stadium in Palo Alto, in particular, would by all accounts have failed every post-Taylor Report safety check in the book.