I heart Claude Makelele

[G-Man]

I heart Claude Makelele

Ah, You just happenned to support te most succesful team in the country from a distance. And now from a bigger distance. So everyone who supports a team from a distance is a gloryhunter too, even if there's no glory? Are you pretending to be this stupid?

Ooooh, that stings, Phoebe. If you had bothered to read what has been said in this thread, you would not have written such a silly post. The point you call stupid has been made on this thread.

I suppose I'm a little guilty of skipping some posts: I hadn't followed the whole Ispswich/Liverpool exchange, so if your response to toro was justified, as has been suggested, I'll withdraw my allegation of your cuntishness in that instance.

Anyway, because Phoebe wants an encore of my hit single, here it goes again. Everybody feel free to sing along:

When I chose Man Utd, they were not the most successful team in England. They had just been promoted from the 2nd Division. As an ignorant 9-year-old, I thought they were underdogs. Had I known differently, I'd have picked another club, probably.

When I came to live in England, I regretted having picked Man Utd. Had I not had a team already, I'd have become a Spurs fan, on account of its proximity to my first place of residence in Finsbury Park. I still have a very soft spot for Spurs. But I've been brought up to believe that once you have adopted a club, you can't change that allegiance.

And I'm still waiting to hear whether according to the idiots who call me a gloryhunter I really should have stopped being a fan of Man Utd when I left London (leaving aside my original childhood error of doing something I shouldn't have done).

[Hofzinser]

I heart Claude Makelele

I have to say I find it very odd that living in Germany you chose to support an English team at all. It's not like there weren't quite a few German teams to choose from. And I also can't believe that you chose your team without any knowledge at all of their recent European Cup winning exploits and all the rest of it.

But mostly, I think hobbes has summed things up quite succinctly.

[Ray de Galles]

I heart Claude Makelele

Pan Tau wrote:

But I've been brought up to believe that once you have adopted a club, you can't change that allegiance.

And I'm still waiting to hear whether according to the idiots who call me a gloryhunter I really should have stopped being a fan of Man Utd when I left London (leaving aside my original childhood error of doing something I shouldn't have done).

Perhaps if your original choice is ruled invalid, you can have another go?

[Bored Of Education]

I heart Claude Makelele

I agree, that isn't the case.

I supported Leeds until I was 10-ish (born there) and then had a glory-hunting couple of years as a Swansea supporter but my interest was waning.

I even supported England (born there) while in Wales because I was a contrary little sod

After moving to London and upon my return from fighting the Shoegazing Wars, I returned to Cardiff City which was the more approppriate team anyhoo and, obviously, Wales.

I then spent a long time being accused of dilletante band-wagon-jumping as I started getting into them just as they had the worse period of their history pretty much. Ho hum.

If my son ends up supporting Man U he will be a "contemptible (in the context of football fandom) gloryhunter", it's quite an easy call to make.

Yes. it is.

[G-Man]

I heart Claude Makelele

I have to say I find it very odd that living in Germany you chose to support an English team at all. It's not like there weren't quite a few German teams to choose from. And I also can't believe that you chose your team without any knowledge at all of their recent European Cup winning exploits and all the rest of it.

You expect a nine-year-old to study the history of a club before making a spontaneous decision??? I was 2 when United won the European Cup. When you're nine, seven years previously is a lifetime ago.

Obviously in Germany I was fanatical about the Bundesliga (and amateur football). I chose Man Utd as my English team without yet being a fan, though I would follow their results. In 1977 my father promised to take me to a pre-season friendly between Hamburg and Manchester United. He died before that; I guess that sort of cemented United as my English club.

When in 1979/80 I started to take a more active interest in English football, by subscribing to Match Weekly (a great way of improving my English), I stuck with Man Utd. When I came to SA, with its football culture in large part oriented towards England (as I have explained), it was no longer an option to change teams; I had developed an affection for the club. That, I think, is a key term here: development.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I heart Claude Makelele

Well it's good to see that the board has responded so well to Man utd winning the European cup. This thread is a great one. Possibly one of my all time favourites.

Now can someone please lock this fucking thing. It's just a horrible shitcycle of shitness and a maelstrom of petty nastiness that I would delete if Only I could.

[Kusal Flyer]

I heart Claude Makelele

Nobody's forcing you to read it.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

I heart Claude Makelele

oh I don't know. I started the thread, and occasionally pop my head in to see if it has reverted to slagging off john Terry.

Anyway, I don't have to get post by post updates to know that it exists, its existence alone is enough to just annoy me.

[Bored Of Education]

I heart Claude Makelele

I am quite happy to start slagging off John Terry again.

Mind you, he will probably come on here and start calling me a cunt because of some long-running fued between us that I have forgotten.

[Anton Gramscescu]

I heart Claude Makelele

Harry Carpenter wrote:

As far as Gramsci and nogoalsnoglory junior are concerned, the argument has been made that being passionate about a club or league outside one's country/city of origin or residence amounts to gloryhunting.

I think my argument would be that they have a vague link to the club and follow them rather than support them. The supplementary charge of glory-hunting is only there if the team they follow has the requisite amount of glory.[/quote]
Well, the thing about watching european football in North America (and to be clear, I lived in the footballing wasteland of Ottawa at the time we started getting regular broadcasts) is that they tend to only show the big teams. Matches from Cardiff ot Oldham tend not to be broadcast. So one's choices are somewhat limited in this respect and I'm not sure anyone would be able to escape the charge of gloryhunter.

Is the "follower"/"supporter" distinction you're making simply a distinction that supporters pay money to watch matches and followers don't?

[EIM]

I heart Claude Makelele

"Having read more or less every word of this thread, I think it's time for me to weigh in.
Basically my thoughts are this.

I can and will support who the fuck I like, for whatever reasons I like. And if you don't like it, you can fuck off.

That should put an end to all this bollocks."

I tried that on page 25 or so. It didn't wash then either.

PD and Harry Carpenter are being a bit mental on this thread, I think. But that's ok. They reckon Toro and GMan are. Different thingys for thingy wotsits and all that.

[De Geas Clean Linen]

I heart Claude Makelele

John Terry eh? Hahahaha.

[David Agnew]

I heart Claude Makelele

Pan Tau wrote:

If you had bothered to read what has been said in this thread ....

...I suppose I'm a little guilty of skipping some posts

Tee Hee and indeed hee.

What with your suggestions of pomposity from that glass house of yours followed straight up with suggestions that accusations of pomposity are cheap and cuntish, you've done a great job of contradicting yourself.

so if your response to toro was justified, as has been suggested, I'll withdraw my allegation of your cuntishness in that instance.

Given that toro's responses to my suggestion that he is a glory hunter has been "no I'm not, besides my team's bigger than yours", I've think I've been quite kind to him.

The "pretending to be stupid" was more the suggestion that everyone who supports a team from a board is a gloryhunter. Given that on this board we have someone like Coffy, whose preference is for Rochdale, you can see how laughable a claim that a Rochdale fan can be a gloryhunter is. Gloryhunters exist all over the place, and in this thrwa it's generally been those who follow Liverpool, Manchester United or Milan from London/Dublin/Germany/Sweden/South Africa who tend to have a problem with the label or even the way the thread has turned out.

For the record, as far as I'm aware, Antonio is a Toronto fan living in Toronto, and I'm unaware of any other allegiances. Or in fact any other teams of other levels in Toronto.

And Nogoalsnoglory's kids should be Ipswich fans, and if not beaten into submission until they are. I'd probably be less partisan about that if ngng was, say, a Leicester or Cardiff fan, mind.

[Anton Gramscescu]

I heart Claude Makelele

For the record, as far as I'm aware, Antonio is a Toronto fan living in Toronto, and I'm unaware of any other allegiances. Or in fact any other teams of other levels in Toronto.

Yes, that's true *now*. But TFC only started up last season.

[Brandenburger Toro]

I heart Claude Makelele

Not when Toro said (and I paraphrase slightly) " Your little team will never win the European Cup and that's actually a game I went to, nyah nyah nyah!"

Well, in fairness, a better paraphrase would be that I responded to "my team may not ever achieve as much glory but if they do, at least I'll be there to see it in person, rather than on the telly unlike you" with a perfectly accurate "not so much".

But then, I'm obviously a bit biased here.

Phoebe has gone past the point where I think he's being too silly to argue with. Which, as long-term observers of these threads will know, is pretty silly indeed.

Also; well said, hobbes.

[G-Man]

I heart Claude Makelele

There is a slight difference between ignoring whole swathes of posts which already answered the points you were trying to make, and skipping a little sideshow of name-calling, Phoebe.

Still, your post has served me well in one respect: I've long wondered what people actually mean when they accuse me of being pompous, because I don't see it myself. But if I ever have descended to such levels of pomposity as you did in the first paragraph of your reply, then I wish to apologise unreservedly to everybody on OTF. Though I'm not sure it's necessary.

Other than that, like toro, I see no further point in discussing this with you.

[Jorge Porbillas]

I heart Claude Makelele

When I tell people I'm a Wrexham fan, I just say "I'm a Wrexham fan", whenever I hear Liverpool or Man Utd fans talking of their alliegances thy seem to want to qualify their 'fandom' by adding "season ticket holder" or "home and away" or "since we were in the second division" - the latter applies to Man Utd but also to a fair few Chelsea fans too by now.

I kind of see the point the North Americans are making but then again, I suppose it's similar to me and my choice of Spanish or German teams. We only get to see the top division but I never once considered following Real Madrid, Barcelona or Bayern Munich.

[John Godot]

I heart Claude Makelele

What about Blackburn fans? I've known a few bandwagon hoppers back when they won the league but they've stuck with them since. Is how their fandom started something that will forever taint their support, no matter what?

[Gerontophile]

I heart Claude Makelele

my twopennyworth will mean sod all, but when I lived in Spain (and indeed Holland), it was a conscious choice of who would get my money. In Spain, CF Malaga did, because I was working reasonably close, and it wasnt a days wages to get to see them.

In Holland/Rotterdam, my decision was based on other things, and I fucking hate Feijenoord, so that was a no brainer.

Hobbes got it spankingly correct (yes, EIM you did too 25 pages earlier, but everyone was spleen venting): I choose whom I want, and you can all fuck off.

I know a wee bit about football, and I know enough to know that its better to be at the game if your passion for the team is worth it. On the other hand, I suck Ruperts cock to the extent of having HD too... and someone said previously that people who dont go to games shouldnt have any say in the matter. Correct. We like the game, and when it changes have most to say, but least to venture (as, again someone upthread said, without the crowd, football is just 22 youths kicking a ball around, and I did that when I was young, and was better than some)

This is fair, as we are not as stupid as some 'fans' who claim superfandom in not missing a game. I dont claim any of this, and even when it comes to my team, I wont miss a game (in whatever form) and I again reserve the right to be called a fan.

If you pick a team, by all means claim whatever, and hopefully they do well. If you dont have the option of picking a team (family or whatever), then grow up. No-one actually cares who you support or how they do, because if it isnt the same team as I support, I am not interested (online information notwithstanding, because I learn things about people's reactions to things that happen about football).

If I meet you in a bar, the football team you support is not important. And I will never slag your choice.

I dont necessarily respect more, the people who go to every game on here. They are not the best to hear how a game has gone. I love the people who cant be at the games, and have to sit at a computer (like me) and go through the pain of not being at the game, and not being able to influence it (like you could? although Rapid Vienna c1985 springs to mind... cunt).

So, bollocks. I have Bobby Lennox's shirt from a cup final in 1967. Am I a better person than you?

No. I just have a possible ebay pension.

Oh and Claude Makelele is shite. So there.

[hobbes]

I heart Claude Makelele

whenever I hear Liverpool or Man Utd fans talking of their alliegances thy seem to want to qualify their 'fandom' by adding "season ticket holder" or "home and away" or "since we were in the second division

That's only becuase of the bollocks that gets spouted about "real" fans etc. People feel defensive when they really shouldn't.

[Jorge Porbillas]

I heart Claude Makelele

hobbes wrote:

whenever I hear Liverpool or Man Utd fans talking of their alliegances thy seem to want to qualify their 'fandom' by adding "season ticket holder" or "home and away" or "since we were in the second division

That's only becuase of the bollocks that gets spouted about "real" fans etc. People feel defensive when they really shouldn't.

Or to play devil's advocate maybe it's because they feel the bandwagonjumpers have made being a fan of their club something to almost be embarrased by ...?

And godot ... I don't know a single Blackburn fan

[Pretend Best Friend]

I heart Claude Makelele

Jorge

Reminds me very much of people who call 606 and start their call with "I've been a season ticket holder for 30 years" as if that makes their point more valid.

Or even funnier those people who ring up for a pat on the back because they happen to make a 300 mile round journey to see their team. So what? You're doing it because you want to, it's fucking good fun too.

606's other main product is playing "Team Bingo"

We've got John from Swansea on the line - "LIVERPOOL"

Laura from Hastings "MAN UNITED"

Geoff from Birmingham "ARSENAL"

Paul from Newport "CHELSEA"

etc

[Gerontophile]

I heart Claude Makelele

you forgot Gary from Bournemouth (CELTIC/NEW YORK YANKEES), who wouldnt be heard dead on a radio show.

Why do you listen, if its shite?

And for the 4 times I did listen for more than 6 seconds, I KNOW its shite. I get more information from you buggers than I ever get from a radio show that isnt starring the www.moneysavingexpert.com on Radio 2.

[Ray de Galles]

I heart Claude Makelele

gerontofiel of trutje wrote:

you forgot Gary from Bournemouth (CELTIC/NEW YORK YANKEES), who wouldnt be heard dead on a radio show.

Why do you listen, if its shite?

I know this will shock some people but it's because he's on his way home from actually going to a game.

It's perhaps an indictement of the standards of radio in this country that there are few other options.

[mirko bolesan]

I heart Claude Makelele

Harry Carpenter wrote:

gerontofiel of trutje wrote:

you forgot Gary from Bournemouth (CELTIC/NEW YORK YANKEES), who wouldnt be heard dead on a radio show.

Why do you listen, if its shite?

I know this will shock some people but it's because he's on his way home from actually going to a game.

It's perhaps an indictement of the standards of radio in this country that there are few other options.

Having travelled back with PBF from Cardiff on numerous occassions he does turn off 6-0-6 very quickly after it begins.

Unfortunatly he tends to replace it with one of his many Terrorvision CDs. After a couple of songs you are left longing for the dulcet tones of Tim Lovejoy or "Spoony".

Well, not quite.