Is This The Most Middle Class Programme On Television?

[ursus arctos]

Well, Reed . . .

The fundamental issue there is that too many of the people who get to that point in our system believe that money is the only way to keep score (and someone always has more) and/or that they have sacrificed so much of "real life" on the way there that they can't imagine living it.

My one ray of hope is that many current 20 somethings seem genuinely to be wired differently in this respect, but then I remember people saying that about people who came of age in the late 60s.

[San Bernardhinault]

It's really hard to explain to a non-Brit how deep class runs in absolutely everything about Britain, and how very little of it is directly financial.

Incidentally, given Perou's description of his show, you might argue that it's actually upper-class in content (aristocracy and grand buildings and so on); it will be a middle class show, though, because it's middle class to look at that stuff and admire and aspire to it, to hew ones behaviour to try and get as close to that apogee of poshness as you can within the constraints of your wealth.

[Amor de Cosmos]

Fuck this shit. I just can't imagine being in my fifties and making seven digits a year and willingly signing on for a few more years. Yeah, you get multiple big houses and boats and shit, but your TIME, man, your TIME. We only get to do this once. When you're on your death bed, are you going to think, "I wish I'd spent more time in the office so I could buy a Porsche?" I suppose the sad reality is that there are a lot of people who do think that. Fuck.

I think there are more who don't know what else to do, and it's not strictly financial. Few would admit it, but they're are afraid of the freedom. It's profoundly sad.

[Patrick Thistle]

The Great British Watercolour Challenge or whatever it is on Sky. Fronted by Frank Skinner who is the most middle class working class oik ever.

One of the competitors talked about how she took a year out to travel and paint like it's something everyone does, yah.

[George]

Since when can regular middle class folk afford to take a year out to 'find themselves', or support one of their offspring doing so?

[Amor de Cosmos]

Isn't that a gap year? They seem to be rather common in the UK, no?

Arguably my whole life has been about finding myself. I think I was misplaced somewhere in 1965, and I've been searching for me ever since.

[George]

The gap year of probably everyone I've known who went to University was taken up a by job placement, and almost all stayed local.

[Amor de Cosmos]

I thought they came between school and university. I'm clearly misinformed.

[George]

Third year at Uni I believe (I didn't go to one), then you come back for the fourth and final year.

[ursus arctos]

I think that the answer in the UK sense is when "everyone" (not really everyone) in the Southeast who owned a home saw its value increase by hundreds of thousands of pounds which they could borrow against, thus creating a market for all of the house hunting, renovation, decorating, second home buying, etc shows referenced above and, in some cases, a pot of cash to be spent on gap years for one or both generations.

[George]

In other words 'middle class' by the standards of certain parts of Surrey.

[ursus arctos]

Very much so.

Which seems to be the only demographic that matters in the UK to this observer from across the pond.

[George]

Well, frankly they're running most of the show.

[Hot Pepsi]

It's really hard to explain to a non-Brit how deep class runs in absolutely everything about Britain, and how very little of it is directly financial.

Incidentally, given Perou's description of his show, you might argue that it's actually upper-class in content (aristocracy and grand buildings and so on); it will be a middle class show, though, because it's middle class to look at that stuff and admire and aspire to it, to hew ones behaviour to try and get as close to that apogee of poshness as you can within the constraints of your wealth.

That aspirational aspect might explain it. I was wondering if all that stuff he describes is “middle” than what could possibly be “upper?”


But here, “middle class” would mean minivans, moving to a painfully boring suburb to send your kids to “decent” public schools, Thanksgiving with turkey and relatives you don’t even like, telling people you just want your kids to be happy but worrying about their job prospects if they major in art history in college.

Come to think of it, these are all things that would have once been called “Yankee.”

[ursus arctos]

That’s seen through to a regional lens, though.

It other parts of the country, the school would be “Christian” or an “Academy” (or both) and attendance at a mega church preaching a version of the prosperity gospel would be expected, as would ownership of at least part of a second home and associated toys like ATVs, small boats or jet skis.

[Hot Pepsi]

I think there are more who don't know what else to do, and it's not strictly financial. Few would admit it, but they're are afraid of the freedom. It's profoundly sad.

Yeah, I suppose that’s it. My uncle, a successful anesthesiologist, worried a lot about what he’d do in retirement and then when he finally retired, he was restless and tried a lot of stuff but I think he remained unsettled and a bit anxious for the rest of his life. He specifically said that he regarded money as a score card. I didn’t know how to convince him otherwise.


I can’t relate. I can think of lots of things I could do if I were suddenly set financially - rescue animals, learn to be a Zamboni driver, try to be some kind of artist, grow stuff, read a lot of books, overthrow the patriarchy, and what not.

[Hot Pepsi]

That’s seen through to a regional lens, though.

It other parts of the country, the school would be “Christian” or an “Academy” (or both) and attendance at a mega church preaching a version of the prosperity gospel would be expected, as would ownership of at least part of a second home and associated toys like ATVs, small boats or jet skis.

Yeah, that’s true.

Though, in my mind, owning a second home makes one a member of the upper-middle-class, st least.

Everyone just wants to feel like they’re doing “ok” and we’ve foolishly ceded the job of defining “ok” to advertisers and real estate agents.

[ursus arctos]

It’s almost as if the entire concept has become so vague as to be devoid of meaning

[Hot Pepsi]

It is, and yet it drives a lot of human behavior.

[ursus arctos]

As a species, we are capable of a tremendous volume of really dumb behaviour.

Which is a big reason why our “reign” will almost surely be relatively shortwhen compared to many “lesser” species.

[Uncle Ethan]

Has University Challenge had a mention yet? If not then I nominate University Challenge.

[Fussbudget]

I love University Challenge.

These days it seems to regularly feature teams of mature students who are not clearly middle class or posh (like the Ulster team last year), though I guess that doesn't make the programme itself any less middle class.

[Hot Pepsi]

This thread made me think of this classic.

https://www.theonion.com/home-buying...1819566407/amp

[Pérou Flaquettes]

I love University Challenge.

These days it seems to regularly feature teams of mature students who are not clearly middle class or posh (like the Ulster team last year), though I guess that doesn't make the programme itself any less middle class.

Great programme but IMO contestants are given too long to answer when allowed to confer, sometimes up to 25 seconds. They’re young, they spend their time studying, they have superfast brains, most of them probably don’t do drugs ergo they should only have 8 seconds tops to answer (that said, I went through the selection process in 1992, we got to the final stage in Oxford and I wish I’d been given 25 seconds per Q, but I did do drugs so I have an excuse; they should be 2 competitions really, one for clean-living students and another one for unwholesome students).

And too many Oxbridge teams, a major gripe of mine. I have nothing agst Oxbridge, I was dead happy when my 6th formers were admitted there but it’s not on to allow so many Colleges. I know, it’s been explained on here before, technically they’re not part of the same uni etc. but still, Oxbridge is not a metropolis, unlike New-York or Greater London/Paris with 15 or 20 different proper unis (+ the Grandes Écoles for Paris), many of these Colleges are tiny, therefore Oxbridge should be limited to 4 entries tops IMO.

Only Connect (which I love too, which probably makes me terribly middle class, what with the art programmes I watch) and are pretty middle class too, starting with the presenter, Victoria Coren-Mitchell, who was privately educated from the age of 5, then went to Oxford where she won’t have met many proles (I suppose you could say that for many presenters probably, indie schools or Grammar School, especially the older presenters of these middle class programmes).

I bet not too many Mastermind candidates went to Chav High either, that’s pretty middle class too.

Oh BTW, one of the topics on tonight’s Mastermind is Sunderland AFC, I’ll be aiming to score 10, would be really happy with that.

[Janik]

Victoria Coren-Mitchell, who was privately educated from the age of 5, then went to Oxford where she won’t have met many proles.

The proportion of state school kids at Oxbridge has been rising fast over recent decades. It's over 50% now for both institutions. In fact Cambridge had proportionally fewer students from fee paying schools compared to non-fee paying than Bristol Uni (for example) in 2016, which isn't a notorious bastion of privilege. Bristol is among others, as Cambridge was 9th in the table. Oxford was still top of that (or bottom, however you want to look at it), but between the pair of them that is an improvement from where it once was. The myth of Cambridge and Oxford still has a grain of truth to it for sure, but it's fewer grains and more exaggeration of reality these days than once was the case.