The twelve shit Smiths songs

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Going back to 'Half A Person' for a mo, I just found out that Morrissey got the title from the original name for John Fowles' novel 'The Collector'. (I've been flicking through 'Songs That Saved Your Life').

Also, apparently 'Girlfriend in a Coma' is in the tradition of 60s 'death disc' songs like 'Ricky Valance's 'Tell Laura I Love Her'. I don't really know much about the death discs thing other than having read about it here and there, so I couldn't say if GiaC is a worthy homage. Anyone else?

Finally, I feel a very robust defence of 'Strangeways' coming on. While I agree that 'I Started Something...' is pants (and that video with the bequiffed missing-the-entire-point buffoons very irritating), I think the album's right up there with their best work.

I'll be back...

[Wyatt Earp]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

I sort of know what Taylor means about Alan Bennett, but to me it's a bit like those readings of Jane Austen that see her stuff as being mainly about Good Manners. All that Northerniana is just the context for Bennett's work, which is, the best of it, pretty universal. I think he suffers as much for his Dead Ringers impersonation as for his own stuff. ("Thora passed me the Yorkshire Post. A gang in Harrogate had been arrested for importing fondant fancies and passing them off as macaroons.")

[G-Man]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Also, apparently 'Girlfriend in a Coma' is in the tradition of 60s 'death disc' songs like 'Ricky Valance's 'Tell Laura I Love Her'. I don't really know much about the death discs thing other than having read about it here and there, so I couldn't say if GiaC is a worthy homage. Anyone else?

If so, it most certainly isn't a worthy homage or a good parody.

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

On the Alan Bennett/Ealing comedies/Elsie Tanner etc thing, to me all of that stuff - the sleeves, posters, T-shirts, little messages scratched into the vinyl grooves - gave The Smiths a unique and inspring aesthetic.

For me, the culture they celebrated became forever entwined with their music. To a teenage Southerner, who up until then, had been more of a football nut, it made books and films seem like a whole other world that I needed to investigate immediately. And it made 'the north' seem like this impossibly poetic, romantic place. So at 14, I simultaneously gobbled up The Smiths and 'A Taste of Honey', 'Saturday Night and Sunday Morning', 'Billy Liar', 'The Man in the White Suit', 'The Happy Prince' etc.

Like The Manics introducing thousands (millions?) to Baudelaire, Camus etc, I think pop music's power to influence, inspire and educate is one of its most potent and important qualities.

[beak]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

I'd be interested in hearing this defence of Strangeways, Here We Come; I got to thinking last night about making a list of a dozen shit Smiths songs, but was waylaid by marvelling at how rubbish that album is (it's the only one I don't own, so I don't get to pondering this that often..)

As for How Soon is Now.. okay, in the wider scheme of things it is a good song, but I don't think it would make it into my Smiths Top 10. Whatever it is that makes people love it so, I just don't get.

[G-Man]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

It tells the story of my life. When I was 16 (or 19), clumsy and shy.

[Guest]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

What a great thread.

wingco is right that Morrissey & Marr aren't part of the same world - to put it simply, Marr is very much part of the mainstream of post-1960s British culture, i.e. the slipstream of American rock music, and Morrissey ... isn't. I don't think Morrissey likes pop music very much, in the end, and I don't just mean a distaste for the sounds and styles of SAW or rave or whoever, but a deeper and more profound antipathy towards pop's cultural legacy. They played off each other very well - Morrissey keeping Marr from playing the guitar hero, Marr preventing Morrissey from becoming a caricatured English nostalgic. Very much like Lennon & McCartney, and it's instructive that, as with those two, neither was as good again without the other to reign in their worst tendencies.

I have a lot of time for Promenade, which stands a bit of carmodising as a counter-Parklife - a representative of the one culture in the UK that still venerated the middle-classness which in its natural home had by then been killed by mockneydom, i.e. the self-defined outpost of Ulster Unionism (at its most bearable with Hannon, at least there, at its most horrific with Hutton). Like Parklife, it's a moving album despite its massive, grand-scale flaws, the sound of one man desperately trying to work out the cultural void at his heart. But Taylor's more right than wrong about The Divine Comedy; they're very much a fixed idea and easily-digestible concept of "intelligence", too much Kit and the Widow and not enough Fry and Laurie, as much a caricature of the pre-pop world as pop has become a caricature of itself, which makes you understand why pop/rock happened in the first place. Obviously I hated his cartoon-posh-boy, Chris Evans phase (which is the only reason he was ever famous - "Something for the Weekend" being played four times in one show or whatever the fuck it was) - an instant archetype acceptable to a culture that knew nothing else, merely the inverse of Liam Gallagher and just as reductive and insular.

The thing with Ealing comedy is that so many wankers love it that it has a horrific image problem if you don't have the Majorite (hypocritical in his case, of course) view of this country (not too different, in essence, from SR's problem with the Beatles). The dividing lines are auteurist ones: those directed by Alexander Mackendrick or Robert Hamer work on many more levels and are much less rose-tintedly sentimental than the others. The Ladykillers (Mackendrick, and right at the end of the cycle, on the edge of ITV, Suez, rock'n'roll and Osborne) is grimly ironic in all kinds of ways: it's been read as a metaphor for the Attlee government, thwarted at the death in its more radical plans, almost accidentally, by bumbling old men who didn't really even know what they were doing (though the post-war, pre-Thatcher Tory governments nonetheless accepted much of the Attlee settlement), and the final scene of Katie Johnson walking off in triumph is far from what it would be in, say, a Henry Cornelius film - it was almost immediately shown to be a death rattle, as the old certainties (of a world where even petty crime could supposedly always be prevented by little old ladies) dissolved amid the forces mentioned above and the back-to-backs fell to Joe Meek's new world. Mackendrick, who'd lived his life in mid-Atlantic, must have sensed all that even in 1955.

Surely even SR couldn't regard that as interchangeable with The Titfield Thunderbolt, which is indeed overwhelmingly neo-feudal in its view of an England which, it is implied a mere decade before Beeching, can be protected forever from change merely by a vicar who makes the one in Dad's Army look positively urban-prole? Surely he wouldn't think of those two films as the same?

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Right, I'm back to make my case for 'Strangeways...', which is, in my opinion, brilliant and enormously under-rated.

Firstly, I think it's suffered for (1) being their last album and (2)following 'The Queen Is Dead'. Everyone got caught up in the post mortem and the debate about it not being as good as their 'masterpiece'. For me, the music is mostly great - the sound of musicians trying to do something different, push things along, experiment a bit. This works really well in parts - 'Death of a Disco Dancer', 'Last Night I Dreamt...' - where the words/themes and ambience gel brilliantly. Being a teenager stuck in my bedroom and hearing those two minutes of ominous, distant crowd noise, thinking "wtf?", before it bursts into life with Morrissey's desperate announcement that "Last night I dreamt, that somebody loved me..." was insanely dramatic. I loved it so much and still do.

Admittedly, the urge to do something a little musically different fails badly in other cases. The glam rock of 'I Started Something...' reminds me of all the low points of Morrissey's solo career.

Lyrically, it's ace, a classic Smiths combo of poignant, arch and darkly funny. The very first time I played it, I remember having to rewind the cassette before it'd even got to the end of the first song, thinking to myself, "Did he just say, "...and the pain was enough/To make a shy bald Buddhist reflect/And plan a mass murder"...? A high point was 'Death of a Disco Dancer' which ended up being pretty prescient the way the whole summer of love evolved into into superclubs, gangs and guns. But putting the violence thing aside, I like the way he skewers the ultimate emptiness of hedonism-dressed-up-as-a-philosophy - a bit like Pulp's 'Sorted For Es and Wizz', but simpler and darker.

I think 'Paint A Vulgar Picture' has suffered over the years from (1) it becoming more and more ironic as the Smiths best-ofs pile up and (2) it being seen as one of the first (the very first?) of Morrissey's moaning songs about perceived slights inflicted on him by high court judges, greedy band members, idiotic biographers etc. Putting all of that aside, it's just a very sharp commentary on the nature of fame and the merchandising of talent.

As I said before, I think 'Girlfriend in a Coma' did a great job of being a bouncy pop song with a dark lyric. Maybe it was just me, but it gave me a thrill to hear this song about the pointlessness/impossible conundrum of love coming out of radios wherever you went (when every other song was about how great love and indeed 'luuurrrve' is).

'Death At One's Elbow' is a bit weak, 'Unhappy Birthday' seems a bit phoned in.

But, and it's a big BUT, 'I Won't Share You' is a bona fide, stone cold, worthy-of-a-place-in-any-Smiths-top-ten classic. What a beautiful way to end an album and, as it turned out, end an era. Is it an open letter to Johnny Marr? I dunno, maybe, probably, but I think the level of ambiguity around that makes it even more poignant.

Maybe the fact that this was the first Smiths album I bought and listened to and loved at the actual time of its release has influenced me on this, but I honestly think 'Strangeways' is up there with their best stuff. And I'm not really sure if this strengthens my argument or weakens it, but Morrissey and Marr agree with me.

[E10 Rifle]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

I don't completely share your take on the whole album Pants, but your advocacy of, in particular, Death of a Disco Dancer and I Won't Share You (the obvious standouts) are spot-on.

[Spearmint Rhino]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

I'm not sure that I've seen either of those films, Robin, so I'm certainly not equating them. I'm saying, broadly, that there's a certain kind of English nostalgism which doesn't speak to me (never has), leaves me cold (always has), apart from a handful of dilettante exceptions, maybe because I'm not English, maybe for other reasons, who knows. But Morrissey loves that stuff, and when he goes into overdrive in that direction is when he loses me.

[Spearmint Rhino]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Yeah, "I Won't Share You" and "Death Of A Disco Dancer" are outstanding (and two of the Smiths songs which made it onto my memory-starved Walkman). But if you actually think that line about the shy bald Buddhist is a notably good one, Pants, then I'm afraid we're barely even the same species, let alone the same type of Smiths fan.

Even "I Won't Share You" is almost ruined by that fucking line about Perrier water.

Part of the trouble with Strangeways, for me, is that the band had already ceased to exist when it came out, so it felt like a grim aftermath rather than an exciting new text, and it was impossible to listen to it without knowing that Morrissey and Marr were barely on speaking terms when it was made.

(I expect you'll say something like "Yeah, but that's what makes it great", or something.)

You use the phrase 'phoned in' about a couple of songs, but for me it applies to all but a couple of songs.

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Shit, one of us must be an alien Rhino, because I really do think that's a good lyric. Taken in the context of the narrator being jumped and getting a good shoeing, firstly I think the line "I smelt the last 10 seconds of life" is classic Smiths and then the bit I mentioned before - I can't think of any other writer who could get that kind of weird/silly/funny/evocative description into a pop song.

Part of the trouble with Strangeways, for me, is that the band had already ceased to exist when it came out, so it felt like a grim aftermath rather than an exciting new text, and it was impossible to listen to it without knowing that Morrissey and Marr were barely on speaking terms when it was made.

(I expect you'll say something like "Yeah, but that's what makes it great", or something.)

I don't think that's what makes it great, I just think all of that baggage has clouded people's judgement. Why should the circumstances of its recording and release have any bearing on whether it's any good or not (don't answer, I know they do somehow; I think the fact that they never toured it also contributed to it ending up as many Smiths fans' least favourite album).

The whole thing was really bittersweet for me (like thousands of others, probably) because I was holding the brand new album from this life-changing band I'd recently discovered...but they'd just split up. So like every other bedroom wally I sat there poring over the words and seeking meaning where often there probably wasn't any.

Prodigal - surely one of The Auteurs' albums would have counted as the anti-Parklife? 'Now I'm A Cowboy' or, although it came later, 'After Murder Park'?

[I.Wright]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Pants. I'm here with a torch for Strangeways.

Aye there's a few duffers on there, like most Smiths albums, but i've always thought it didn't deserve the lowly position it generally takes on any Smiths album league table.

[quote][Maybe the fact that this was the first Smiths album I bought and listened to and loved at the actual time of its release has influenced me on this /quote]

This quote is also true for me. It seems the timeline can have a great effect on the emotive reasons for liking an album.

Although it's not a proper studio album, Louder than Bombs has always been top of my league. 24 tracks with all those lovely B sides from their 'golden era'.

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Good man, Wrighty! Now...are you of the same species as me - the one that thinks the lyrics of 'Stop Me If You Think You've Heard This One Before' are great, or am I a lone freak?

[I.Wright]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Nothing wrong with the shy bald buddhist line for me but the track is not a highlight in itself. On 'Last night I dreamt' however I am four square behind you. It ranks among their best IMO.

[Guest]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

I.Wright wrote:

Although it's not a proper studio album, Louder than Bombs has always been top of my league. 24 tracks with all those lovely B sides from their 'golden era'.

Louder than Bombs and Hatful of Hollow are the 2 of the best compilation albums ever.

[G-Man]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Louder Than Bombs is what I use to introduce people to The Smiths. Great cover too.

[Ant van Oviedo]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

"Girl Afraid" is one of my favourites, and I would never have described it as "flimsy" or "negligible", but there you go.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned "Cemetary Gates", a song whose music just doesn't really go anywhere or do anything, and whose lyric is irritating to the point of nausea. Ooh, the battle of the poets. Playing into the hands of the Smiths haters, that was.

I also confess that I've secretly always found "There is a Light..." just a bit dull.

[Spearmint Rhino]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Wait, Ant Van Oviedo and Pants are not the same person? Shit, that's me confused.

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Me too! Ant VO, who are you?

(And, by the way, surely 'Cemetary Gates' is a wonderful 3-minute take on the poignant brevity of life and the eternity of death?)

[Taylor]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Pants wrote:

(And, by the way, surely 'Cemetary Gates' is a wonderful 3-minute take on the poignant brevity of life and the eternity of death?)

No, it's a smug embarrassment. I don't think saying "ooh, some graves - all those people were born, lived and then died" is particularly insightful (especially as he nicked that line anyway), and if Morrissey really thinks Oscar Wilde was a better writer than Keats or Yeats, then that explains a lot.

Didn't pick it for my list, but only because the acoustic guitars sound so nice.

Still can't believe the love for that "bald Buddhist" line, which is surely Morrissey at his worst. It's not well-written and it's not funny - if someone you know said that to you, you'd cringe.

[WOM]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Taylor, I don't often disagree with your posts. In fact, I can't think of a single one. Until now.

[E10 Rifle]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Yeah, Cemetry Gates is something the Smiths should never have been and almost never were - twee.

Girl Afraid, though, is brilliant and one of the best lyrics Morrissey ever wrote. If Purves was around, I'm fairly sure he'd back me up.

[Pants]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

Taylor, if anyone I knew spoke to me in lyric-form, yeah, it'd be a bit cringeworthy, but if they wrote it in a song and asked me what I thought, I'd say 'very good'.

On the 'Cemetry Gates' thing, yep agree the poppy, Kinksy guitar is lovely. And, to my mind, the themes of friendship/know-it-alls/plagiarism/life/death is really entertaining and interesting stuff within a pop song. I've never thought Morrissey was saying that Wilde is better than Keats and Yeats - just that the two characters are having a game of literary quotation one-upmanship and he knows his Wilde inside out. Seem plausible?

[jason voorhees]

The twelve shit Smiths songs

What Pants said exactly word for word on page 3.

And here I thought I was the only one listening past my bedtime in the dark with getting off on those soundscapes.

My only disappointment with the album (and yes, "GF in a Coma" was my first Smiths song) was that when Miami Vice used "Last Night I Dreamt," it was for such a lame scene with a Chinese gangster at a nightclub where each part brought out the worse in the other.