Blasphemy, Irish style

[Guest]

Dermot Ahern -- the second front-runner, behind Micheál Martin, to succeed Cowen as leader of Fianna Fáil (though probably not as Taoiseach) -- wants to make religious blasphemy a libellous crime in the media.

Fintan o'Toole salutes him.

[sw2borshch]

Blasphemy, Irish style

I'm no lawyer, but doesn't libel have to in some way denigrate someone's good character?

[Wyatt Earp]

Blasphemy, Irish style

No, "blasphemous libel" is the term in English law too. Here, it's not quite a dead letter, but heading that way; a newly-passed version in Ireland would be much more damaging.

[Eggchaser]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Let's face it, only one thing will do.

[Guest]

Blasphemy, Irish style

WE wrote: No, "blasphemous libel" is the term in English law too. Here, it's not quite a dead letter, but heading that way...

Largely replaced by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 and formally abolished by the CJIA 2008 (uh, except in Scotland...).

[Wyatt Earp]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Raskolnikov wrote:

WE wrote: No, "blasphemous libel" is the term in English law too. Here, it's not quite a dead letter, but heading that way...

Largely replaced by the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 and formally abolished by the CJIA 2008 (uh, except in Scotland...).

Thanks. I stand etc.

[Ek weet nie]

Blasphemy, Irish style

This is a letter to the Irish Times

Madam,

The Irish Government’s proposal to make blasphemy punishable by law seems curious to those British parliamentarians, like myself, who fought successfully to bury this relic of the Star Chamber.

The archaic common law offences of blasphemy and blasphemous libel were abolished in the UK just a year ago, in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008.

With all-party support, we relied not only on the advice of the Law Commission, but on the wise judgment of the Irish Supreme Court in the Corway case.We had the support not only of English PEN and writers and artists, but also of the British clergy.

There was wide recognition of the chilling effect of these offences on the right to freedom of expression, and of the divisive nature and effects of retaining the offences in our modern plural society where one person’s religion is another person’s blasphemy, and where British Muslims were campaigning to extend blasphemy offences to protect Islam (a move rejected by our court in the Satanic Verses case in which I acted for the publisher of Salman Rushdie’s novel).

Parliament has also enacted a narrow offence in the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006 of incitement to religious hatred. This applies only to threatening (as distinct from abusive or insulting) words or behaviour, and places the burden on the prosecution to prove specific criminal intent.

I drafted and Parliament approved section 29J (the so-called “English PEN clause”) which provides as follows: “Protection of freedom of expression:

“Nothing in this Part shall be read or given effect in a way which prohibits or restricts discussion, criticism or expressions of antipathy, dislike, ridicule, insult or abuse of particular religions or the beliefs or practices of their adherents, or of any other belief system or the beliefs or practices of its adherents, or proselytising or urging adherents of a different religion or belief system to cease practising their religion or belief system.”

To those of us who admire Ireland’s constitutional and legal system, it would be bizarre and perverse if the Irish Government and legislature were now to resurrect the Star Chamber offences and make them punishable by law.

It would also provide an unfortunate example to the rest of the free world at a time when many Arab and African states are pressing for a new international crime of religious defamation.

Yours, etc,

ANTHONY LESTER,
(Lord Lester of Herne Hill QC),
Liberal Democrat Peer,
Blackstone Chambers,
Temple,
London, England.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Blasphemy, Irish style

I started a thread about this when it first came out called something like it almost makes you want to go out an paint a picture of the virgin mary getting airlocked by jesus and two other black guys. something pithy anyway.

I'm undecided if it's because dermot ahern is trying to shore up fianna fail from attack from the catholic right, and to try and insulate them from marion Harkin in ulster, and that crazy irish american cathy sinnott in cork, or whether because he's actually a religious hardcore nut himself. He certainly didn't cover himself in glory in the legalization of homosexuality debate back in 1993

[garcia]

Blasphemy, Irish style

what did he do in 1993? and who are these catholic nuts you are talking about? and why does anyone care what they think?

this is fucking unbelievable stuff - a whole new dimension of idiocy from the government.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Because while there is a lot less of them than there used to be, there's a lot more of them than you'd think. I mean Dana was an MEP for Connaught Ulster for christ's sake. Cathy sinnott is a lightning rod for every kind of fringe loony in munster. The Government treated her abominably but she has an essentially libertas platform built on top of er wider healthcare provision or something.

Ahern basically let it be known that he was being forced at the barrel of a gun to vote for the decriminalization of homosexuality, and that he thought that there was a lot wrong with it. I think he said that they were disordered and that there was some weird reference to the break down in society and an increase in murders.

He's pretty conservative alright, but he is always aware of being outflanked from the right. The speech of the FG td for Louth Brendan mcGahon in that debate is a real shout from the dark ages, and it encouraged him to reveal perhaps a little more of himself than he might have wished to.

[Guest]

Blasphemy, Irish style

McGahon was a nutjob -- the male Alice Glenn. Hacks went easy on him in print because he kept buying them pints in the Dail bar, and because there was a tacit understanding that he was a cartoonish sort of character whose views were not really worth taking apart.

As for this thing, it's more a case of Ahern trying to distract some people's attention away from the fact that the government has completely destroyed the country and couldn't find its own arse with both hands and a map. Ahern is also targeting the leadership of Fianna Fail when Cowen eventually gets fucked out, and seems to have decided that Micheal Martin will get all the centrist votes so he might as well head for the right wing.

[Brandenburger Toro]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Dermot Ahern sodomised the infant Buddha.

Will that do?

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Blasphemy, Irish style

It's a start.

Brendan McGahon was born in 1936, but his attitudes were straight out of the 1870's

[Guest]

Blasphemy, Irish style

And yet he was (we're talking about him in the past tense but he's still alive) capable of the occasional moment of shocking liberalism, such as the moment when he denounced a piece of draconian anti-prostitution legislation with the immortal words "This bill is a wanker's charter."

He was also opposed to hare-coursing so he wasn't all bad.

He played for Dundalk in the League of Ireland for a while in the late 1950s.

[Steve GNR]

Blasphemy, Irish style

He had no time for the Provos either.

[anton pulisov]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Blasphemy is illegal in the Netherlands.

You can visit a prostitute but you can't insult the good lord.

[Brandenburger Toro]

Blasphemy, Irish style

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

Blasphemy, Irish style

There's a lot of things wrong with that article, the biggest being the idea that the govt is just meeting its obligation to pass laws to cover the constitution, whereas it is perfectly happy to sit on it's hands in relation to abortion, reproductive rights, fathers rights, childrens rights and hundreds of other areas, prefering instead to let the supreme court do make the law.

We're doing this because the minister for justice wants to.

the other thing is that you could probably easily get blasphemy taken out of the constitution. I mean who is going to stand up for it? the catholic hierarchy?

whoever is writing that is going a million miles out of their way to be a contrarian. the idea that we were bringing in censorship in order to be fashionable and modern is hilarious.

[Ginger Yellow]

Blasphemy, Irish style

How has Ireland voted in those annual blasphemy resolutions at the UN?