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    The Wire Series 1

    Just popped in to say that Prop Joe (Robert Chew) died this week of heart failure. Sad to hear, but given his size, sort of predictable.

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      The Wire Series 1

      Because if he'd been black, the docks would have been perceived as just another place in Baltimore which black people get fucked over. You'd view it through the lens of race. (You wouldn't, necessarily, if it had been a stand-alone series, but within the context of the other four seasons, I think you would).

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        The Wire Series 1

        WOM wrote:

        Just popped in to say that Prop Joe (Robert Chew) died this week of heart failure. Sad to hear, but given his size, sort of predictable.
        Page 2, dude.

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          The Wire Series 1

          Because if he'd been black, the docks would have been perceived as just another place in Baltimore which black people get fucked over.(You wouldn't, necessarily, if it had been a stand-alone series, but within the context of the other four seasons, I think you would).
          Speak for yourself, I wouldn't have. The docks was a place of work. Class is a central factor in workplace relations issues - internally and externally. Class is also often a contributory factor to black people getting fucked over.

          The 'black' seasons of The Wire - if you're going to give them these absurd labels - also had class as a major issue. Indeed, the whole show is one of the most stridently anti-capitalist dramas I've ever seen. And its central theme seems to me to trash a lot of America's myths around social-class-mobility, and freedom.

          In fact, the sense of oppression and lack of freedom inhibiting the characters is palpable in every episode of every series. For my money, this scene sums up what The Wire's about more than any other. (And it also features two characters that are closer to being actual 'good guys' than most.)

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            The Wire Series 1

            E10 Rifle wrote:
            The 'black' seasons of The Wire - if you're going to give them these absurd labels - also had class as a major issue. Indeed, the whole show is one of the most stridently anti-capitalist dramas I've ever seen. And its central theme seems to me to trash a lot of America's myths around social-class-mobility, and freedom.
            I agree with this. Which is why I find singling out Season Two not quite right.

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              The Wire Series 1

              But wasn't the port the only place in Baltimore where there was a workplace for the working class- except the corner? Apart from service industries or the sports shop, or the gardening job there's nothing else possible.

              Isn't that part of the point of the show?

              The Union is the corrupt (though no more than anything else) largely white (though not entirely) institution in the work place. . And people dealing with instituitons whether the drug trade, the police, the schools or the press or just plain old capitalism is what the show's about.

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                The Wire Series 1

                Season Two is, I reckon, utterly essential in the sequential context of the whole show. It's a statement that says to the viewer, "any illusions you had that this was just gonna be more black-on-black drug/gangster porn can be kicked out now. Here's some class issues. Deal with them."

                I'll have to agree with E-10 on just about all of his points.

                It's funny, because Season 2 is widely reviled in the US as it seems to be loved in the UK, but it is very much an essential chapter in the novel. The thing is, the seasons are chapters. Everything is there for a reason.

                I feel, especially in the light of the December 14 Sandy Hook shootings, that season 5 was most essential of all the seasons in a rebuke of network news and television. To me, and what was missed by most in the UK, the most essential scene was the one where the FBI "profiler" who worked the Unibomber murder ("you mean the one where the brother ratted him out?") is seen as an heir to Sherlock Holmes, and when he asks how many murders the Baltimore detectives work they say in the 300s. This to me was the greatest slap in the face of the networks and real life in America. Season 5 to me was the rabbit hole, and showed how whatever America had in the way of warning people was long since corrupted and useless.

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                  The Wire Series 1

                  Nefertiti2 wrote: But wasn't the port the only place in Baltimore where there was a workplace for the working class- except the corner? Apart from service industries or the sports shop, or the gardening job there's nothing else possible.
                  I'm not quite sure what you mean here (and this may be one of those trans-Atlantic difference in the notion of class). The dude in the sports store is just as working class as the guy at the dock, no? And may even make a similar amount of money - at least he gets steady hours.

                  Jason: why do you think season 2 is loved in the UK and reviled in the US?

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                    The Wire Series 1

                    Some of the reasons E-10 was saying. A touch of gangster porn, but it was more akin to putting on an NWA or Ice Cube album and hearing Billy Bragg.

                    People loved Avon and D'Angelo and Stringer so much, and Frank Sobatka was not the reason they watched or fell in love with the show. However, if they had known how it would turn out, or that it was 1 of 5 chapters in a novel, it wouldn't have been as jarring to most people.

                    When David Simon talked about the Two Americas, this was also a show for the other America. The America of Avon and Cutty and Omar and etc. For many, there have been generations of unemployment for which a union job is as alien as tracking satellites in the Antarctic.

                    One of the most poignant scenes in any urban-centered drama that I've seen was the burning of the abandoned house in Eminem's 8 Mile. During the burning of the house, Em finds a photograph of the middle class black family that lived there. It may as well be from 800 years ago. He has no idea why the house is abandoned, why that family looked so happy and well-dressed, why so many other houses are abandoned...only that he's drunk and his friends want to burn the shit down. Season 2 exlained what happened to that family, and why the house is abandoned.

                    England has more of a history of labor dramas as well. Blue Collar or Michael Keaton's Mr. Mom are pretty much as far as it goes over here.

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                      The Wire Series 1

                      Anton Gramski wrote:
                      Originally posted by Nefertiti2
                      But wasn't the port the only place in Baltimore where there was a workplace for the working class- except the corner? Apart from service industries or the sports shop, or the gardening job there's nothing else possible.
                      I'm not quite sure what you mean here (and this may be one of those trans-Atlantic difference in the notion of class). The dude in the sports store is just as working class as the guy at the dock, no? And may even make a similar amount of money - at least he gets steady hours.

                      Jason: why do you think season 2 is loved in the UK and reviled in the US?
                      The organised working class. The shop worker can't organise. he's on his own. plus the shop worker sells their personality as well as their labour, which is another reasons why the Corner kids have very little chance, outside the Corner.

                      They call it affective labour

                      Plus of course how many people work in a sports shop compared to the docks in a major port?

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                        The Wire Series 1



                        Innit.

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                          The Wire Series 1

                          Anyone else supporting the Ravens tonight purely because of The Wire?

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                            The Wire Series 1

                            I know and care little of the NFL but, yeah, a part of me will be imagining being in a bar with Bunk, Lester and the likes watching it

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                              The Wire Series 1

                              E10 Rifle wrote: Looking forward to WOM returning to the thread when he's finished season four.
                              Done, an hour ago. Two days of the stomach flu means you can move through episodes at a good clip.

                              Great season, s'all I got to say. Heavily weighted in the last two episodes. Minimal McNulty, which is good and bad. Prez really comes into his own as a character. So much to think about.

                              I haven't seen five yet, obviously, but I really am struggling with where Season 2 fits in.

                              And yeah, when I heard that it was Baltimore/San Francisco, I picked Baltimore because of The Wire.

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                                The Wire Series 1

                                By no means want to turn this into a sports hijack, but it is interesting how David Simon treated the Ravens. The Orioles were obviously huge, with appearances in both The Wire and Homicide. There was a major scene in Homicide with the Canadian Football League Colts making an appearance at the famous and now-destroyed Memorial Stadium, in which Munch and others on the Baltimore Police Department were featured before a game.

                                However, he never said a thing about the Ravens.

                                Maybe it was because he grew up a Redskins fan.

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                                  The Wire Series 1

                                  you may recognize the streetlights of this pic.

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                                    The Wire Series 1

                                    jasoñ voorhees wrote: There was a major scene in Homicide with the Canadian Football League Colts making an appearance at the famous and now-destroyed Memorial Stadium, in which Munch and others on the Baltimore Police Department were featured before a game.
                                    Yeah, but they spent that entire scene talking about how CFL football wasn't the real thing.

                                    Anyways, check out this course beig offered at Harvard. What I wouldn't give to be at school again.

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                                      The Wire Series 1

                                      Haha, even that course doesn't bother with season 5. That course looks amazing.

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                                        The Wire Series 1

                                        Season 5, Episode 8: Nooooooooooooooooo!

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                                          The Wire Series 1

                                          What happens in that one again?

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                                            The Wire Series 1

                                            omar

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                                              The Wire Series 1

                                              It's all over.

                                              So good.

                                              Season 5 doesn't hold a candle to the others, but it wasn't as dire as I was expecting.

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                                                The Wire Series 1

                                                Now you can only join the ranks of us who are jealous of all those lucky bastards who still have watching The Wire ahead of them.

                                                I rewatched series 2 over the last week or so. You people are crazy, it's absolutely immense.

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                                                  7 years on and, with the archive being fucked, I can't find any other thread about the show which I finished last night. Mind you, I am afraid if there is another thread. After every film I watch, I listen to Mark Kermode's review and then I turn to OTF. It's almost as enjoyable as watching the film. After season 2 of The Wire, I listened to Kermode's review (yes, I am even later than him to it) but wanted to wait until I had finished the whole thing to come here. I have (aside from SR's trademark thin-skinnedness and PG's unbelievable transgression) really enjoyed reading it. Indeed, it reminded me about Frank Sobotwa which seems like decades ago now and I miss him like an old friend.

                                                  Anyway, broadly, my feelings are that, tonally, it reminded me of nothing as much as Hill Street Blues (which is no insult, as I loved that). This was reinforced by the very old-fashioned feel to it. I know that they make the point in the first series about still using typewriters in the 21st Century to say how poor the police department but they were still using typewriters in the 21st Century. I am not criticising, I liked the old school feel of it mainly as it did make it feel like HSB (which I might have to revisit albeit I have been told it has aged really badly.

                                                  Re - The Sopranos V. The Wire. It shouldn't be a thing but, as I regard the former not only as the greatest TV ever but one of humanity's greatest achievements, I always knew going into it that the latter was going to be measured up to it. The verdict? The Sopranos still comes out on top but just by a (I won't fall into PG's trap) hair. It's a bit slicker and a bit broader (the humour that was talked about before even though I thought there was humour in The Wire aplenty).

                                                  There were instances where The Wire was just a touch clunkier than The Sopranos. For instance, I loved what they were trying to do with the "Fuck" only scene with Bunk and Mc Nulty but, due to their own constraints, it wasn't believable, it broke the wall as you laughed along with the conceit rather than being absorbed in the scene. I was left with the same image of Simon et al leaning back, putting their hands behind their heads and patting themselves on the back like Paul Weller having written the lines "two lovers missing the tranquility of solitude". There were other scenes that could be described as Shakespearean except they, like the Sopranos, are far better than Shakespeare. A lot of them involved one of my absolute favourite characters in Omar. There was one scene where he is facing Brother Mouzone in an alley and their dialogue is brilliant. I mean neither character is believable as gangsters but they fit in absolutely fine - it's not a documentary after all.

                                                  Onto characters, Omar, as I say, is one of my favourites and I am amazed that we are still not seeing gay characters like him over a decade after. After that, there is....

                                                  Gus - absolutely loved him, one of the most believable characters beautifully underplayed. A lot of shows would have had him McNultying all over the place whenever he felt hard done by.
                                                  Bubs - going back to Hill Street Blues, I am sure there was a regular snitch character in that he reminds me of. For a man of my age, I instantly thought Huggy Bear but, of course, wrong show. By the way, the Steve Earle cameo didn't work for me. Not that he didn't play his character well, it's just that it was always Steve Earle in The Wire - the band logo tattoo and jacket didn't help either. Apologies for the comparison but Little Steven worked much better in The Sopranos as he changed enough.
                                                  Duke - another completely good character. I don't know whether this is too much of a spoiler, from his first appearance, you kind of knew his journey's end to a certain extent.
                                                  Prez - not quite my favourite character but, for obvious(ish) reasons, I had a lot of sympathy for him when he went to teach. I remember on OTF thread passim I was recounting a tale from when I was a parent governor at my son's school and ended up going toe-to-toe with a bullying arsehole of a parent in the school hallway. Anyway, at the time, someone mentioned that it sounded like Season 4 of The Wire so I was intrigued what they meant. As it goes, the school that he taught at is much more like the school I currently teach at and a couple of others that I have in the past than the one I was school governor at.

                                                  As an aside, even though - or, possibly, because - it was close to what I do, I couldn't get into the school scenes quite as much as it is stopped me immersing myself completely into the world. Not the show's fault, obviously. Actually, I have got to stop watching these shows as watching Sopranos, Breaking Bad and now The Wire in recent years, there have been too many characters and scenes that have mirrored real life. Think I will have to finally finish The West Wing as there are no parallels there.

                                                  Aside from the occasional clunkiness, I have very few criticisms of it. Beadie's character could have been a bit more fleshed out after Season 2 perhaps. In fact, like a lot of these series, perhaps a few more stronger female characters would have helped but, when dealing with the police, the docks, drug dealing, female characters are hard to find. Certainly, again back in the school setting, the more experienced characters in charge were authentically female.

                                                  One character who was vile but absolutely brilliantly played was Snoop. I have seen that character so many times (albeit invariably male). Indeed, I wonder if the real life Snoops that I see are actually her percolated through popular culture onto the streets of London, Bristol, Swindon and even Bath.

                                                  While I thing about the show and its influence on popular culture, I thought "True Dat" would be running through all five series, it was used so much by people. However, I think 'Mos'def' was used more and "A'ight" and definitely Clay Davis' "Sheeeeeitttt" were much more prevalent.

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                                                    Thanks for digging this old thread up, Bored. I'll read it when I've watched The Wire S5 - just done S1 to S4 so far (and I've heard S5 isn't quite as good as the others), so don't want any spoilers. I read the first page and a half or so anyway. I'm firmly in the camp of The Wire >> The Sopranos.

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