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The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

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    The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

    Sorry if this has already been done (old news I know) but I couldn't find a thread when I searched, just a few posts on the "great film, bad ending" thread.

    I finally saw the film for the first time last night, at home on DVD. I'd expected to find it fascinating, and been confident (given the very favourable critical reception the film enjoyed) that I'd like it. But I was really unprepared for just how much of an impact it would make on me. I consider it the best film I have seen for very many years, probably now my second favourite film of all time. It's the kind of film that, for ages after I see it, I can hardly stop thinking about it, constantly replaying scenes from it in my head.

    A lot of its impact is due to a combination of gut-wrenching emotional power and an awesome subtlety and deftness of touch.

    There are some interesting comments (both positive and critical) quoted in the Wikipedia entry for the film.

    #2
    The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

    WOW.

    Thank fuck it isnt/wasnt just me. I kept silent for ages about this, but I think (subtitles included) that it is fantastic.

    There is more that I could say (lead actor, lead suspect etc) but... if you get a chane, give it a chance. It wont excite you, but it will intrigue you.

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      #3
      The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

      Old OTF thread

      It's a fantastic film.

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        #4
        The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

        and the writer was in my 2nd favourite film (Zwartboek)

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          #5
          The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

          You had me confused for a moment there gero, until I realised you meant the actor (Sebastian Koch) who played the writer character Dreyman. I see he is also in a soon to be released film entitled "Effi", a remake of the Effi Briest story. I hope that film is better than Fassbinder's, which was a crass heavy handed work in my view which did some disservice to Fontane's wonderful and vastly more nuanced novel.

          Nil, thanks for posting that thread from the old board - very pleased to see that many people felt the same way about the film as I do. I must take up Purves' recommendation of the Kundera book "The Joke".

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            #6
            The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

            I thought that the film was very good and Muhe was great as the surveillance officer Wiesler but I thought Wiesler's change of character and the upbeat ending didn't really sit with the realism of the rest of the film.

            If you found the subject matter interesting then Anna Funder's book "Stasiland" is well worth reading.

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              #7
              The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

              I felt it worked 100%. The film isn't about him, the film is about how art transforms people. He isn't protecting these people, he is protecting their art. It's the reason he tries to tell the actress that he is in fact acting at the end of the film...he thinks he's speaking to an artist instead of a strung-out pimped-out ho-cake druggie.

              The two artists live in an idealized world to the Stasi agent, and it is the fantasy that he is protecting. The writer at the end of the film has no idea why he was spared, he can only thank the human that spared him. Because they don't meet, because they don't know the true intentions of the other, they live in mystery of this "other".

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                #8
                The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                It gets my thumbs up. A wonderful film.

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                  #9
                  The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                  jason voorhees wrote:
                  I felt it worked 100%. The film isn't about him, the film is about how art transforms people. He isn't protecting these people, he is protecting their art. It's the reason he tries to tell the actress that he is in fact acting at the end of the film...he thinks he's speaking to an artist instead of a strung-out pimped-out ho-cake druggie.

                  The two artists live in an idealized world to the Stasi agent, and it is the fantasy that he is protecting. The writer at the end of the film has no idea why he was spared, he can only thank the human that spared him. Because they don't meet, because they don't know the true intentions of the other, they live in mystery of this "other".
                  100% correct, and possibly up for post of the year JV.

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                    #10
                    The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                    Thanks for the thread(s). I've got this as an Xmas DVD and will be watching it once I've finished reading Wallander.

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                      #11
                      The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                      Hmmm. Actually I think I perceived the film rather differently from the way JV (and apparently also gero) did, That's not an attempt on my part to imply that JV is in any way wrong or even necessarily that I am right. The interpretation(s) of a film must be partly in the mind of individuals who watch it, and it would be interesting, but not in any way conclusive, to know what the screenwriter/director - the same person in this instance - was trying to convey. I can say though that, if I had interpreted the film the way JV did, I would have enjoyed it much less than I did, because human interest touches me rather more effectively than the importance of "art".

                      Taking JV's numerous statements one at a time.

                      I felt it worked 100%. The film isn't about him, the film is about how art transforms people. [I think it's about both those things, there's no dichotomy there my mind.] He isn't protecting these people, he is protecting their art. [If I believed that the film would not have moved me as it did. And the scene in the lift with the boy who reveals his father's anti-Stasi views shows to me that it's about issues of humanity way beyond the sphere of artists.] It's the reason he tries to tell the actress that he is in fact acting at the end of the film...he thinks he's speaking to an artist instead of a strung-out pimped-out ho-cake druggie [I disagree strongly. No doubt I'm being too simplistic but I think it's perfectly legitimate to see that as simply an attempt to console a dying woman.].

                      The two artists live in an idealized world to the Stasi agent, and it is the fantasy that he is protecting. [As above, I think that's too narrow a reading of the way his exposure to the music and to the artists' emotional lives touches him and makes him more human.] The writer at the end of the film has no idea why he was spared, he can only thank the human that spared him. Because they don't meet, because they don't know the true intentions of the other, they live in mystery of this "other". [I agree with that.]

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                        #12
                        The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                        It's the first and only film that made me cry at the end since King Kong when I was four.

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                          #13
                          The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                          Apparently I asked if I could change the channel at the ABC when there was a love interest bit in "King Kong". The 70s one, just for clarity. I'm not sure it happened, I file it with the story that I did a poo behind the curtains when I was 2.

                          I started watching the Lives of Others just before Xmas and was loving it but my girlfriend fell asleep and as I'm a gentleman I stopped it so we could watch it together later. Stiil waiting.

                          Has anyone seen the "Baader Meinhof Complex" yet? I'm really looking forward to it, but it'll be very limited showings round here & no doubt I'll blink and miss it. The above girlfriend redeemed herself at Xmas by getting me a 70s Panther paperback about the whole carry on & it's been a jolly good read despite a few typos & odd seeming translations.

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                            #14
                            The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                            sw2boro wrote:
                            Has anyone seen the "Baader Meinhof Complex" yet? I'm really looking forward to it, but it'll be very limited showings round here & no doubt I'll blink and miss it. The above girlfriend redeemed herself at Xmas by getting me a 70s Panther paperback about the whole carry on & it's been a jolly good read despite a few typos & odd seeming translations.
                            Is that the Stefan Aust book?

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                              #15
                              The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                              No, it's Jillian Becker. I think it may be the rarer of the two!

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                                #16
                                The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                It's "Hitler's Children - The Story of the Baader-Meinhof Gang", and I've got a revised & updated edition that includes the Somalia Hijack, the Schleyer Kidnapping & the Controversial Suicides according to the blurb on the front.
                                I'm still not that far through it, but the whole affair is something I've always been intrigued to read about when it's had broadsheet coverage but I've only ever scratched the surface before. I always thought of the RAF as a kind of German SLA/Patty Hearst carry on, which is true up to a point, but this author seems to be developing an argument (the title is a hint) that they were particularly German, almost in a "Sonderweg" of urban terrorism.

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                                  #17
                                  The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                  My ex and her family, who were originally from East Germany, refused to watch The Lives Of Others. I mean, it doesn't soft-pedal what life was like under that regime but the idea of a sympathetic Stasi man was simply too much for a lot of people who experienced them first-hand.
                                  I liked the film, by the way.

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                                    #18
                                    The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                    LM - Great points indeed. The only point I'd do a complete 180 from you is the last one. The agent is quite obviously trying to tell the actress that it's in the bag, the coast is clear, the fight is fixed. Because of the meeting he has with her in the diner, he can only assume that he is speaking in a language that she and her boyfriend can understand. It is anything but consoling her: watch it again and it's plain to see that he already was going to/already hid the evidence.

                                    Indeed it's a human interest story and not only about the art, however I saw the scene with the boy and the hooker as a way for the Stasi agent to become like the two artists, who he idealizes and of whom he is transformed by. The music and theatre, the feelings they evoke, the way they live their lives, is what transforms him. However, he is so hapless (great quote from LA Confidential would fit: "don't be a goodguy, you haven't had enough practice") and pathetic in his attempts (the hooker scene is one of the most heartwrenching/douchechilling/inspiring scenes ever, seeing this worm of a man trying to human) to live like them. However, like the child scene shows, he is a child when it comes to being a human. In that elevator, he and the child are equals - he is at the start of his new life.

                                    The only thing he succeeds at is what he always has been successful at: being a liar and a manipulator and a slimy cog in the totalitarian machine. Only he uses those skills for the benefit of the two, because of his transformation by the two. Again, a key element is the fact that on each side of that ceiling of that apartment, these people are absolute aliens. (Key point being the actor telling the former Gov Official/Legalized Rapist "it's hard to believe people like you once ran our country." He may as well have been speaking to the Lizard People.)

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                                      #19
                                      The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                      Ah, there's a thread.

                                      This is available on the iPlayer until Friday.

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                                        #20
                                        The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                        Well that was bloody great. I've had this downloaded for ages, and the room I'm lodging in has the DVD in it. But it took for iPlayer to come on for me to get round to watching it. Aside from breakfasts, is there nothing the Germans can't do?

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                                          #21
                                          The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                          La Racaille de Rochdale Road wrote: Aside from breakfasts, is there nothing the Germans can't do?
                                          Stupid boy.

                                          They can't do bootcut jeans.

                                          It may have already been done but, what with the 25th anniversary of the Wall coming down and all that, they ought to make a film showing what the characters in The Lives of Others are doing a quarter of a century down the line.

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                                            #22
                                            The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                            They'd have to recast, as Muhe died not long afterwards.

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                                              #23
                                              The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                              La Racaille de Rochdale Road wrote: Aside from breakfasts, is there nothing the Germans can't do?
                                              Tea. Bacon. Decent telly. Pubs. Queuing.

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                                                #24
                                                The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                                MsD wrote: They'd have to recast, as Muhe died not long afterwards.
                                                They could get Jürgen Vogel in. He's got a good reputation and even looks like Ulrich Mühe, albeit with worse teeth.

                                                Aside from breakfasts, is there nothing the Germans can't do?

                                                Tea. Bacon. Decent telly. Pubs. Queuing.


                                                I'll give you queuing. I don't know about tea and bacon as I don't consume either of them. The only thing I watch on telly is Tatort (possibly because all the rest of it is rubbish).

                                                I used to miss British pubs for years. However, the last couple of times I was in one - the scrum at the bar, the rush to nack your beer five minutes after you've been sold it, the blokes on the door who think they're coppers, who dress like coppers, who try to act like coppers, but who aren't coppers - I decided that Kneipen are, at least in big cities, far superior.

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                                                  #25
                                                  The Lives of Others (Das Leben der Anderen)

                                                  You're describing an experience there which only matches a small proportion of British pub visits.

                                                  Nothing against Kneipen - in fact I've truck loads of extremely fond memories of Hamburger and Berliner Kneipen of all kinds from the 1980s and subsequent visits. But there are some great pubs in English cities where you can have a great evening if you know where to find them.

                                                  Things the Germans can't do: customer service.

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