UEFA's 54th member

[Rogin the Armchair fan]

Greenland has voted for autonomy from Denmark.

I'm assuming UEFA will grab them before CONCACAF does, although that might be stretching even UEFA's idea of how far "Europe" extends beyond credibility.

Not quite sure how a largely ice-bound nation of just 37,000 souls is going to fare in the 2014 World Cup qualifiers, or even if it's possible to grow a pitch in Godthab, but I expect they'll soon be giving Wales one of those "there are no easy ties in International football these days" games ...

[Gerontophile]

UEFA's 54th member

Didn't they change the name of 'Godthaab' ages ago?

[Jorge Porbillas]

UEFA's 54th member

Rogin the Armchair Fan wrote:

... but I expect they'll soon be giving Wales one of those "there are no easy ties in International football these days" games.

I hope so! What an away trip that will be!

It has to be said, though, Ynys Môn (Anglesey) regularly beat Greenland at the Island Games' footbal tournament.

[rick derris]

UEFA's 54th member

also, as we just beat the 'mother ship Denmark' away, possibly using Wales as an example is a bad one

[blameless]

UEFA's 54th member

Rogin's just getting his neighbours mixed up. It's us that fucks up against former Danish colonies, not you guys.

[mirko bolesan]

UEFA's 54th member

In all fairness I wouldn't fancy Wales' chances on Ynys Môn!

So, what's the reason for Faroe Islands being allowed as members of UEFA but not Greenland? Would Greenland joining open the possibility of a shitstorm with Gibraltar also attempting to join?

[Anton Gramscescu]

UEFA's 54th member

Greenland's case was written up in Steve Menary's book last year. My understanding is that they would want to play football in UEFA even though several Greenland teams in several other sports play in North American confederations.

The Faore Islands is one of those cases FIFA would probably take back if it could. It admitted them in 1992 and has changed rules on admittance at least twice since then because so many other people said "hey, what about us"? I believe the loophole they got through at the time was that you could have multiple representatives from the same country if the FA's had different spheres of authority. Basically, Denmark had more than one FA, but they were each competent in their own geographic spheres and - crucially - the Danes said they had no problem with the Faroese having their own representation. This is not true, say, of Zanzibar and Tanzania - there is a Zanzibar FA, but the Tanzanian FA has continaully blocked Zanzibari representation at FIFA (though for some reason they're happy to let them have it at the CAF, as Zanzibar do participate in the Cup of Nations).

Anyways, as was pointed out here back when we were talking about Kosovan adherence to UEFA and FIFA, the process for recognition is nowadays pretty straightforward. FIFA won't touch you until you've become a member of a confederation. UEFA won't touch you until you've become a member of the UN (a fairly new rule designed mostly to screw the Gibraltarians).

So it will take a little bit of time for Greenland to become recognized. 2014 might be a bit soon - I'm not sure what the terms of the referenudm were in terms of timelines for sovereignty. Kosovo might yet beat them in if the Russians drop their objections to Kosovan UN membership.

[ursus arctos]

UEFA's 54th member

It's increased autonomy by 2009, but with Denmark retaining responsibility for foreign policy and security and continuing to provide a majority of Greenland's budget.

Given those terms, I don't think they would qualify for UN membership.

[Anton Gramscescu]

UEFA's 54th member

CONCACAF might take 'em, then - as they do Martinique and Puerto Rico - but UEFA wouldn't.

Blame Spain.

[Kusal Flyer]

UEFA's 54th member

If Wallonia and Flanders become the 55th and 56th members of UEFA at some point, which if any will 'inherit' Belgium's past record? And will the other or both thus start the next tournament as bottom seeds?

[Anton Gramscescu]

UEFA's 54th member

The obvious precedent to follow would be Czech Republic and Slovakia. I *think* what happened was that the Czechs got the seedings and rankings as the successor state and the Slovaks had to start at the bottom. I assume that the reason was population - the Czech's being the larger of the two. If that were the case, the Flemish bits would presumably be designated the "successor" FA and the other might well have to start at the botom.

But politics would make a difference, I would tihnk. If instead of an amicable break-up one side "seceded" from the other, then the secessionist bit - even if it was larger - might not have rights to the name since the "old" state would still exist.

[ursus arctos]

UEFA's 54th member

I think the political influence of the two sides and relative population is such that you would almost certainly have a negotiated compromise in which neither party got the full benefit of Belgium's record (or the detriment of not having it).

There have already been proposals to split the FAs, btw.

[blameless]

UEFA's 54th member

AG's right - it's always the section that contains the old country's capital city that inherits the existing record (Czechoslovakia, USSR, Yugoslavia, etc), so the Walloons would be out of luck in this case.

FIFA won't touch you until you've become a member of a confederation. UEFA won't touch you until you've become a member of the UN (a fairly new rule designed mostly to screw the Gibraltarians).

See, it's things like this that makes us oppose a GB Olympic football team so vigorously - despite "assurances" from assorted bullshitters like Blatter, Coe and Moynihan, the framework for depriving the four UK nations of their footballing independence is very much already in place.

[ursus arctos]

UEFA's 54th member

blameless, the working assumption of any Flanders/Wallonia split is that neither would get control of Brussels.

[blameless]

UEFA's 54th member

How on earth would that work? Brussels used as a timeshare? An old-style Danzig/Tangier/Trieste "free city"? Taken over completely by the EU?

[ursus arctos]

UEFA's 54th member

The most common assumption is the latter, but the mechanics of the whole thing are diabolical.

[mirko bolesan]

UEFA's 54th member

Thanks for the explanation AG, it makes sense.

This is not true, say, of Zanzibar and Tanzania - there is a Zanzibar FA, but the Tanzanian FA has continaully blocked Zanzibari representation at FIFA (though for some reason they're happy to let them have it at the CAF, as Zanzibar do participate in the Cup of Nations).

Zanzibar and Tanzania are in the same group in the "2008 CECAFA Cup" being held in Uganda. The tournament kicks off on the 31st December 2008...

[Guest]

UEFA's 54th member

"If Wallonia and Flanders become the 55th and 56th members of UEFA at some point, which if any will 'inherit' Belgium's past record? And will the other or both thus start the next tournament as bottom seeds?"

Knowing our Flemish friends, they will take everything! Seriously though, I don't see this happening.

Ursus : the Belgian FA did not split. What happened is that the Flemish amateurs clubs joined an association (ASBL) that enables them to receive subsidies from the Flemish government. The FA stays united, as do the various leagues (who are split under different provinces under the 4th division). The former province of Brabant is an exception : it splitted in two about 15 years ago (might be before but time is flying by at my age!) in Flemish Brabant and Walloon Brabant, with Brussels in neither of them (Brussels is in Brabant) but the football competitions at a Provincial level are still with clubs from both sides+ Brussels. Simple eh?
Back to the FA "split" : football and hockey are the only sports in Belgium left with an united federation, all the other sports have their Flemish and French-speaking federations. All the clubs from Brussels (about 50) refused to chose one side or another and elected to remain "Belgian" - they do not want to be classified "Flemish" or"French-speaking". All of them wanted to retain their national character.
Coincidence : football and hockey were the only team sports where Belgium whose teams qualified for the Olympics.

Belgium is a mad country.

[ursus arctos]

UEFA's 54th member

Steph, thanks as always for your great insights.

I didn't mean to say that it had split, only that the idea was under discussion (by the usual suspects, of course).

[Guest]

UEFA's 54th member

That's correct, I misread your post!

[West End Zuma]

UEFA's 54th member

Geographically it's part of North America. According to Wikipedia in 1946 the US offered a $100 million to buy it off Denmark.

Would it be more beneficial for them to be part of EUFA or CONCACAF? I'm trying to imagine how Mexico might handle an away WC qualifier playing on a frozen pitch in front of a small but fearsome Eric the Red Army.