Copa Sudamericana 2008

[Sam]

We're into the last 16 already and there isn't yet a thread on it. If no-one wants to join this one I'll happily let it die, I can't stand this competition but it's produced some good football so far: Boca thrashed Libertadores holders LDU Quito 4-0 in La Bosteronera last night, I've just watched San Luís play rather well against Argentinos Juniors, and have now got Chivas vs. Atlético Paranaense on and it's already 1-1 after 10 minutes.

Anyone want to join in? I'm off to bed soon, but River are playing tomorrow so I'll be around to cover the board in swearwords then if anybody wants to pay attention...

If not, we shall reconvene in the new year for the commencement of proper continental football.

[jason voorhees]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

I'm still pissed Colo Colo lost 2 years ago.

[cantagalo]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

I'll join in, Sam, in the hope that it improves in subsequent rounds. Just watched Botafogo lose in Colombia but I wish I hadn't bothered even though they played their full team.

Relegation threatened Atlético-PR put out their reserves and their commitment to the competition can be gauged by the fact that their manager didn't even bother travelling.

And there was also a 0-0 for half of Palmeiras' team playing on a plastic pitch in Peru.

So the quarter finals have got to be better than this, haven't they?

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

It's not the quality I've got a problem with, Sid. I've watched two-and-a-half games (and am now watching the River match) this week that have been far better than the average Champs League group game. I just hate the competition, the way that CONMEBOL, with their ridiculous way of inviting River and Boca every year whether they actually qualify or not, seem determined to undermine the credibility of what could be a genuinely engaging tournament if it was just straight knockout.

River and Boca entered at this round. Arsenal de Sarandí, who won it last year, have already played a qualifier (albeit it against a side from Honduras, which isn't even in South America) to get this far. I just can't see the point in it.

Still, Seba Abreu is back from Israel and he actually scored for River in the eighth minute. Wonders will never cease. Defensor Sporting 0 - 1 River at the moment, 51 minutes in.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Oh for fuck's sake. What is Abreu doing? He's scored again. He's going to use up his quota for the season if he's not careful.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

2-1 full time. Augusto Fernández got harshly sent off for a very strong tackle which did very much take the ball, and with five minutes to go Juan Ojeda, who's looked good for River in goal so far, totally misjudged a free kick from deep and enabled a Defensor striker to bundle the ball over the line. Still, River have won a match. Roll on the weekend!

[delicatemoth]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

I've never been able to suss the qualification rules/format on this one. Could someone oblige?

[ursus arctos]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

As Sam notes, it is what we would call "arbitrary and capricious", with the whole idea being to give teams likely to attract large television audiences something else to play for.

[cantagalo]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

This Wikipedia link is a reasonable starting point but it doesn't explain very well how teams are 'invited'. I suspect they make up the rules as they go along each season.

Sam, I'm sure, will correct me here but it appears that this season, as well as River and Boca, São Paulo and LDU have been invited having already appeared in this season's Libertadores.

There are 8 places for Brazilian teams who qualify on the basis of league position ie the 7 best placed teams who haven't qualified for the CL plus São Paulo. They then play off against each other in a two-legged preliminary round, games which are treated with extreme indifference by the Brazilian public (and the clubs themselves who often field reserve teams). In fact, in 6 years, a Brazilian team is yet to win the tournament.

I did see an excellent last 8 game last season between Botafogo and River in front of a full house so the tournament can capture the public's imagination, if only in the later stages.

[jefe]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

I'm still pissed Dema Kovalenko missed a gaping net to give us a 3-0 halftime lead at Catolica a couple years ago.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Sid, first of all this season's Libertadores doesn't start until January / February. I suspect Sao Paulo are also invited but LDU might well have qualified by virtue of Ecuador being such a small country, or something. I know they've qualified for the 2009 Libertadores already anyway, even if they'd not won it this year. I might be wrong, but from the TV point of view I can see why they'd invite Sao Paulo, Boca, River and maybe a couple of other Brazilian clubs (SP are the most politically powerful though aren't they?), but fail entirely to see why they're so desperate for a slice of the Ecuadorean TV market that they'd invite Liga in. A more (economically) sensible move in terms of market share, I would think, would be ensuring the presence of a Colombian (population) or Chilean (decent economy = more TV money) side, neither of which they do. Or, indeed, a Mexican one...

Boca are through, obviously (1-1 in Quito last night in a dull match), as are Argentinos who overturned the 2-1 first leg loss away to San Luis, winning 2-0 at home. Chivas put Atlético Paranaense out something silly like 6-5 on aggregate, and I'm now watching River vs. Defensor - River 1-0 up (3-1 agg.) after Pablo Ferrari, the right back, pounced on a mistake by a Defensor defender and hammered it into the top corner. Great finish.

As I typed that Andrés Ríos (I think) got in behind the defence but had his narrow-angled shot saved. This isn't a bad match so far.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

2-1 full time, 4-2 on aggregate to River. Not a bad match. Paulo Ferrari was the man of the match, got forward a lot and linked well with Buonanotte. Diego Barrado got the second with just under 15 minutes left, and Defensor pulled one back in stoppage time. Much more comfortable for River than the scoreline made it look, although they still can't defend from set pieces to save their lives.

[cantagalo]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Should have joined you watching it Sam, but Cruzeiro v Sport was on the other channel. It's reached half time without any incident of note whatsoever, apart from the goalflashes from the River game.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Oh, what the hell. Twelve posts in and I haven't put one ever-so-subtle plug in yet. So, the goals from Boca's and Argentinos' matches on Wednesday night are in this post here. Both sides went through.

And there's a very quick writeup of the River game, plus a video of the goals, here.

Enjoy.

[cantagalo]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Not a good night for the Brazilian teams as both Palmeiras and Botafogo crash out to Argentinos Juniors and Estudiantes respectively.

The Botafogo game was notable for the antics of defender André Luis. Earlier this season he managed to get himself arrested by the Pernambuco Military Police after being sent off at Naútico. Tonight, having scored the Botafogo equaliser, he gets a second yellow card and decides to grab it out of the ref's hand and wave it at him. The ref finally manages to show him a red but the look of shock and fear on the ref's face is priceless.

Carlos Alberto, who finally ushers him off, was involved in a running battle with Juan Sebastian Veron involving some rather unpleasant stamping and attempted eye-gouging.

Tomorrow night has a tasty looking game between Boca and Internacional with Inter 2 up from the first leg.

[Guest]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

The semi-finals are set to be concluded, starting tonight in Porto Alegre as Inter play Chivas at the Beira-Rio. Inter are already 2-0 from the first leg whilst the other tie see's Argentinos Jrs take on Estudiantes, with their first leg finishing 1-1.

Surprisingly, Inter could be the first Brazilian club to reach the Sudamericana final.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Thanks for that update, Matt. I said this thread would die on its arse, didn't I...

As an aside, after the 1-1 draw in the first leg, Argentinos hosted Estudiantes in the league on Sunday. It finished 5-0 to Maradona's former side. My money would be on Estudiantes reaching the final.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

Estudiantes have beaten Argentinos to play Inter in the final next Wednesday. Not the best of matches and they didn't deserve it at all, not that they'll care.

[Sam]

Copa Sudamericana 2008

First leg of the final finished about 40 minutes ago. Inter won 1-0 in La Plata (follow the link for my match report and a video of the goal).

Not a bad match, Estudiantes played like headless chickens for most of the second half and Andrés D'Alessandro was very good for the visitors, as was Nilmar, other than when he cocked up a one-on-one with Estudiantes' keeper Mariano Andújar which would've made it 2-0 just after half time.

Second leg is in one week's time.