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Never mind whether Die Hard is a Christmas film. Is Jingle Bells a Christmas song?

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    #26
    Churchwise, Christmas is the big one for getting once a year punters in, especially pissed ones for midnight mass. The religious calendar does roll on from there. Boxing Day is St Stephen 's Day, the patron saint of altar servers, Jan 6th is Epiphany and there was something called Candlemas a couple of weeks later. This is just from memory, so G-Man or others may be stronger on the details. When I was an altar server as a child I had a forensic knowledge of quirks in the calendar and rotas that might throw up the chore of having to go to church four or five days in a row. Since I handed in my medal and later gave church the push full stop, there hasn't been the need to retain that.

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      #27
      Originally posted by Simon G View Post
      Stay Another Day has bells at the end, but I'm not sure they were on the original version. I'm sure it had a different video originally as well. The Christmas theme to it seemed to be added to it once it looked like it was going to be number 1 at Xmas.

      Of course I have literally nothing to back this up, except the hazy 24 year old memories from when I was 10.
      Stay Another Day was 'Christmassed-up' in order to get it to number one. Suffice to say it worked a treat and - IMO, at least - the song continues to hold up as a bona fide seasonal standard. (Certainly far more than any other boy-band fare, anyway.)

      We had this debate about Jingle Bells on OTF before, possibly on the old board. I appreciate that it wasn't originally written with Christmas in mind, but, with references to snow, bells and sleighs, it was never likely to escape its modern association.

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        #28
        Originally posted by G-Man View Post
        Are you suggesting that the feast of All Saints, instituted in Rome in the 700s by the pope, was based on a Celtic tradition in Ireland? I'm all for national pride, but I fear you might be overestimating the international influence of Irish culture on medieval Europe. Or are you saying that pagan practices were enculturated into religious practices? In which case you are obviously correct.

        No G-Man, I was saying the Pagan, “Celtic” nature of Halloweeen is massively overstated. A lot of the supposedly pre Christian traditions associated with it are from the very Christian Middle Ages, not some mythical Druidic past.

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          #29
          A Spaceman Came Travelling by Chris De Burgh is another non Christmas Christmas song.

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            #30
            Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
            No G-Man, I was saying the Pagan, “Celtic” nature of Halloweeen is massively overstated. A lot of the supposedly pre Christian traditions associated with it are from the very Christian Middle Ages, not some mythical Druidic past.
            Sorry, I misread you.

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              #31
              Of course it is, what a silly question. As is the E17. And Frankie.

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                #32
                Originally posted by Prester John View Post
                A Spaceman Came Travelling by Chris De Burgh is another non Christmas Christmas song.
                In case no-one has mentioned it recently, but Chris de Burgh can fuck right off.

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                  #33
                  In other festive musical news the CBC bigwigs have suggested removing Baby it's Cold Outside from its Christmas playlists, as it's sexually coercive.

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                    #34
                    Good.

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                      #35
                      Originally posted by Gerontophile View Post
                      In case no-one has mentioned it recently, but Chris de Burgh can fuck right off.
                      I agree, but I was merely doing my duty.

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                        #36
                        Originally posted by Amor de Cosmos View Post
                        In other festive musical news the CBC bigwigs have suggested removing Baby it's Cold Outside from its Christmas playlists, as it's sexually coercive.
                        "Coercive" is a stretch. It's a guy who is very persistent but the woman isn't in distress or coming over as coerced in the song. OTOH it may encourage guys to think that extreme "persistence" is an OK behaviour and to ignore genuine reluctance and discomfort on the part of the woman.

                        But there are many more coercive and sexist tracks played on radio daily; and the CBC attitude is imposing today's concerns on to a song that is clearly from a certain time and place without allowing listeners to be adults.
                        Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 08-12-2018, 20:43.

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                          #37
                          Yup.

                          This line was cited specifically:

                          The neighbors might think - Baby, it's bad out there
                          Say, what's in this drink? - No cabs to be had out there
                          I wish I knew how - Your eyes are like starlight now
                          To break this spell - I'll take your hat, your hair looks swell

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                            #38
                            Not sure if this is a widely known fact, but I discovered it today: Lennon's Merry Xmas (War Is Over) melody is lifted from this Peter, Paul and Mary arrangement of an 18th century folk song about a racehorse:

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXdQB-mR4tg

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                              #39
                              Originally posted by Prester John View Post
                              I agree, but I was merely doing my duty.
                              Fuck man I’ve got the De Burgh and his Spaceman stuck in my napper now. Earworm from Hades. It’ll be almost impossible to dislodge the horrible eyebrows cunt. Chris definitely seems the sort of prick who’d welcome Brexit for “shaking things up” reasons, despite not being fuckin British.

                              Hateful caterpillar brow cunt. When his daughter was a Glenda Gilson not really a model type model in the tabloids every fucking week in the naughties, that was when Ireland truly deserved the disaster of a massive recession. I’m shocked, fucking shocked he’s got a UUP politician as a relative. Hope his castle burns down. See how yr healing hands get on then ya dirty West Brit prick. Cunt is a disgrace to fellow dirty prods.
                              Last edited by Lang Spoon; 09-12-2018, 03:29.

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                                #40
                                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                Not sure if this is a widely known fact, but I discovered it today: Lennon's Merry Xmas (War Is Over) melody is lifted from this Peter, Paul and Mary arrangement of an 18th century folk song about a racehorse:

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXdQB-mR4tg
                                The song (Stewball/Skewball) was discussed by Billy Bragg on a recent Word podcast (in the context of his book on skiffle) jokingly along the lines of cultural appropriation - a folk song about an English racehorse winning a race in Ireland, which somehow became a Southern slave song, turned back into a folk song by Woody Guthrie, a blues song by Leadbelly, and back to Britain with Lonnie Donegan - although the subsequent folk versions and John Lennon's take weren't mentioned.

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                                  #41
                                  Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                  Fuck man I’ve got the De Burgh and his Spaceman stuck in my napper now.
                                  Try singing "Don't Pay The Ferryman" a few times in quick succession, then it might go away.

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                                    #42
                                    "Christmas" is just a bundle of cultural appropriations. From Saturnalia to German tree religions to Odinist Yule Logs (we even kept the Viking "Jul" in the name). So pretty much anything can be "Christmassy" - the important thing is whether it makes you feel Christmassy.

                                    (As an aside, G-Man's comment that the retconned date of the annunciation shows the accuracy of Dec 25 as Jesus' birthday gave me my first LOL of the day.)

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                                      #43
                                      Originally posted by Prester John View Post
                                      A Spaceman Came Travelling by Chris De Burgh is another non Christmas Christmas song.
                                      It's also the best Xmas song. By miles.

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                                        #44
                                        Jingle Bells is only sung at the football (away) at Christmas.

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                                          #45
                                          Originally posted by Lang Spoon View Post
                                          Fuck man I’ve got the De Burgh and his Spaceman stuck in my napper now. Earworm from Hades. It’ll be almost impossible to dislodge the horrible eyebrows cunt. Chris definitely seems the sort of prick who’d welcome Brexit for “shaking things up” reasons, despite not being fuckin British.
                                          .
                                          It's a bit difficult to pin any nationality on C De B. He's a bastardized mongrel.

                                          I'm no fan of his music, but I've never quite understood the levels of vitriol aimed in his direction. And neither does he, as he explained on his Desert Island Discs appearance (which I have listened to).

                                          Anybody care to take this on and outline a neat summary of why he's disliked so much?

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                                            #46
                                            Any schoolyard versions? This was the version in Barnsley schools, mid-70s:

                                            Jingle Bells
                                            Batman smells
                                            Robin flew away

                                            Various lyrical variations. Apparently first appeared in Xmas 1966 in the US in the wake of the debut of the Adam West TV series:

                                            http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-secr...batman-smells/

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                                              #47
                                              Other parodies from the dim and distant past

                                              We three kings of orient are
                                              One in a taxi, one in a car
                                              One on a scooter beeping his hooter
                                              He didn't get very far.


                                              While Shepherds washed their socks by night,
                                              All seated round the tub,
                                              The Angel of the the Lord came down,
                                              And gave their socks a scrub.

                                              And when their socks were squeaky clean,
                                              And sparkling like a gem,
                                              The Shepherds put them on again,
                                              And walked to Bethlehem.

                                              And when they got to Bethlehem,
                                              All looking nice and neat,
                                              The Christ child said you've got nice socks,
                                              But next time wash your feet.

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                                                #48
                                                Originally posted by Patrick Thistle View Post
                                                (As an aside, G-Man's comment that the retconned date of the annunciation shows the accuracy of Dec 25 as Jesus' birthday gave me my first LOL of the day.)
                                                That is a spectacularly ridiculous misreading of what I said, or of the context I was addressing. And even more so given that I said in the same post that we have no idea when Jesus of Nazareth was born. My post was about whether or not the Church appropriated the December 25 date from pagans.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Date of Saturnalia: 25 December (originally 17 December, before changes to the Roman calendar).

                                                  Decision to site Christmas on 25 December formalised by Pope Julius I (337–352).

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                                                    #50
                                                    We Three Beatles Of Liverpool Are,
                                                    Paul in a Taxi,
                                                    John in a Car,
                                                    George on a scooter, papping his hooter,
                                                    Following Ringo Starr.

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