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When did football make its biggest technical leaps forward?

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    When did football make its biggest technical leaps forward?

    I assumed for many years that the biggest leap was in the Beckenbauer/Cruyff era of 1971-74, followed by the Hungary side of 1950-54. But I can also see how the pressing game of Liverpool and Forest 1977-84 influenced Milan 1987-94, whose performance in 1994 is often seen as the best ever in a final (by Alex Anderson of this parish, for example). Barcelona under Pep, it is increasingly apparent, required three freakishly exceptional individuals - Xavi, Iniesta and Messi - and has been harder to replicate elsewhere. Man City are nowhere near that level yet, or the Liverpool/Milan 80s level (except for fitness), unless I am missing something.

    #2
    Probably the Scottish sides of the 1870s with their development of passing, which turned out to be more effective than the previous prevailing tactic of individual players dribbling upfield until they were tackled.

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      #3
      Before 1996 all footballers did was eat woodbines and mud and hoof the ball at the moon. Then Arsene Wenger invented spaghetti and passing and Barcelona was born.

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        #4
        Football makes its biggest tactical leap forward with Ajax in 1995. Here they are beating Milan 2-0 Home and away. That's the Milan team that beat barcelona 4-0 in the final a couple of months before. It's basically what Barcelona, Bayern Munich and Man city are doing today, and it's the back bone of youth coaching in spain, Germany and increasingly england. It's basically the marriage of Total football with players who can run 10 km a game.

        They were also the first team to pick a goalkeeper who was more than two metres tall.
        Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 03-12-2018, 18:59.

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          #5
          Are we talking about technical or tactical here? If it is that latter, then we have to include Charles Reep/Charles Hughes long-ball and Herbert Chapman's W-M even if we don't like them now. Then you are onto catenaccio etc.

          If it is the former, there are probably loads of technical introductions including all sorts of conditioning, analysis, coaching and whatnot.

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            #6
            Every team in the premier league makes 40% more passes per game pn average than they did in 2010. I'd be interested to know how distances covered have changed over that time.
            Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 03-12-2018, 19:09.

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              #7
              So you're saying the mid 90s Juventus team who were all 'roid addled giants, and the Fantabulous Wonderiferous Office of Dr Fuentes have a say in this thread?

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                #8
                Hmm, juventus were using drugs to enable players who weren't primarily selected for their athletic gifts compete against players who increasingly were. That Juventus team was big and strong, but no-one would have accused them of being blessed with an excess of speed. Football in the sixties and the seventies was basically running on a diet of amphetamines and sleeping pills. This isn't really all that new.

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                  #9
                  I’m currently reading Inverting the Pyramid and the point about the Scots of the late 19th century is emphasised there. The English considered passing unmanly. Actually a fair number still do.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                    It's basically the marriage of Total football with players who can run 10 km a game.
                    Unfortunately it only worked for a year, because in 1996 Ajax was eclipsed by a team made up of players who managed to run 20 km a game.

                    Edit: I should really read ahaed huh

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Sits View Post
                      I’m currently reading Inverting the Pyramid and the point about the Scots of the late 19th century is emphasised there. The English considered passing unmanly. Actually a fair number still do.
                      That's the book I was going to quote on this subject. I've forgotten the other examples bar those mentioned already.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bordeaux Education View Post
                        Are we talking about technical or tactical here?
                        This all depends on one's definition of tekhnikos, something I was invested in twenty years ago as a social anthropology student, but struggle to remember even the basics of twenty years ago.

                        The (excellent) example given of Ajax circa 1995 is important: in this context don't tactics represent a sort of collective technique, one related to but best considered apart from the more frequently discussed individual kind?

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                          #13
                          It's time to post this video again. Jari Litmanen's stepover...



                          Have to feel sorry for the Bayern players. They are being coached by Trap and meanwhile Van Gaal gas figured out how to install eyes in the back of his players' heads .

                          What a player. He read the look on Marc Overmars' face. And a most satisfying old fashioned pathe news reel thump of the ball by Finidi.
                          Last edited by anton pulisov; 04-12-2018, 12:11.

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                            #14
                            A change in more recent times is that greater fitness has led to an increase in pressing. I find this goal quite interesting, as straightforward as it seems.

                            This is the 84th minute of a second tier match and the home team are 2-1 up. Not many years ago we'd have been trying to ease off for the final few minutes, sit back and see if a chance comes our way. In fact, if you have the commentary on you can get the sense that the commentator wasn't expecting to see Norwich as high up as they were - he thought they were about to be on the receiving end of a counter attack. But it was in fact a Norwich press.

                            The midfielder getting tight forces the Rotherham player to hurry his pass back to the right back, and it goes a few yards off target. As a result the RB takes more touches than he should to get the ball ready to pass and the Norwich attacker is onto him. He passes the hot potato over to the centre back who really needs to do something with his first touch but the Norwich striker is lurking behind him. In the second that he has to touch the ball and think, it's been pinched and it's game over.

                            Ironically, the centre back would have been better off just launching it first time - turns out there is a time and a place for it after all. Pressing has reduced the margin for error.
                            Last edited by Kevin S; 04-12-2018, 12:36.

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                              #15
                              Barstard.

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                                #16
                                Sorry not sorry.

                                Pressing in football though - is that another Dutch invention?

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                                  #17
                                  That could be Sacchi's Milan, except that the latter pressed farther up the pitch. Beckenbauer's sweeper system of the same tournament rivals it, given the Germans were still using it in Euro 96.

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                                    #18
                                    Yeah, by modern standards the Dutch 74 press is conservative in terms of location on the pitch but aggressive in terms of number of players doing it I suppose.

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                                      #19
                                      It looks really dumb and commits too many players. No wonder it never took off. I mean, that's not pressing, it's swarming. Any coach I ever had would have a fit.
                                      Last edited by anton pulisov; 05-12-2018, 00:37.

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                                        #20
                                        Originally posted by Kevin S View Post
                                        Sorry not sorry.

                                        Pressing in football though - is that another Dutch invention?

                                        It's apparently English according to jonathan wilson.

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                                          #21
                                          Originally posted by anton pulisov View Post
                                          It looks really dumb and commits too many players. No wonder it never took off. I mean, that's not pressing, it's swarming. Any coach I ever had would have a fit.
                                          It's ridiculous isn't it? I does nothing to dispel the rumours that amphetamine use was rampant in the football of the time. There's some needlessly aggressive, and deeply stupid decision making going on there, but a hell of a lot of energy. That's exactly the sort of nonsense that would be brutally punished by later dutch teams with their emphasis on positional discipline and shape.

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                                            #22
                                            I would surmise that the banning of the back pass helped to herald a new age in pressing, as defenders no longer had that safe goalkeeper option.

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                                              #23
                                              That Dutch press looks incredibly similar to a bunch of 7 year-olds in the primary school playground. Structure is all but absent. It couldn't work now with the modern offside rule.

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