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    Best Caribbean Cricketing Nation.

    The traditional view is that Barbados has been the strongest part of the West Indies team and indeed a best ever eleven from them does look terrifying, with Greenidge and Haynes opening, the three W's in the middle order, and a pace attack of Hall, Marshall and Garner. Oh and Garry Sobers too. Only real weakness is that they don't have a top spinner (Suleiman Benn is the best they could do, I think unlikely to be picked even on a turner).

    1. Gordon Greenidge
    2. Desmond Haynes
    3. Conrad Hunte
    4. Everton Weekes
    5. Clyde Walcott +
    6. Seymour Nurse
    7. Frank Worrell *
    8. Garry Sobers
    9. Wes Hall
    10. Malcolm Marshall
    11. Joel Garner


    By contrast, Guyana would be preparing bunsens right left and centre, with a brilliant batting line up, and Gibbs, Harper and Hooper to share slow bowling duties, but no-one really to share the new ball with Colin Croft (John Trim had the best figures, but only a brief international career). They are also missing a top draw keeper - they might let occasional keeper Kanhai take the gloves to allow Trim in, or to pick Ramnaresh Sarwan.

    1. Roy Fredericks
    2. Carl Hooper
    3. Alvin Kallicharran
    4. Rohan Kanhai
    5. Clive Lloyd*
    6. Basil Butcher
    7. Shiv Chanderpaul
    8. Clifford McWatt+
    9. Roger Harper
    10. Colin Croft
    11. Lance Gibbs

    No-one would want to bat against Jamaica and their hugely intimidating fast bowling quartet of Holding, Walsh, Gilchrist and Patterson (and unlike Barbados they have a handy spin option to bring in if conditions demanded it, Alf Valentine). And who better to keep to them than Jeff Dujon. The batting isn't as consistent as some of the other islands though, despite Headley (born in Panama, but played his cricket for Jamaica) and Rowe in the middle order

    1. Chris Gayle
    2. John Holt
    3. Jimmy Adams *
    4. George Headley
    5. Lawrence Rowe
    6. Marlon Samuels
    7. Jeffrey Dujon +
    8. Michael Holding
    9. Roy Gilchrist
    10. Patrick Patterson
    11. Courtney Walsh

    Probably the best balanced team is Trinidad and Tobago, good batting, lots of all-rounders, and pace, swing and spin options. Could be the surprise package.

    1. Jeffrey Stollmeyer
    2. Charlie Davis
    3. Brian Lara
    4. Larry Gomes
    5. Gus Logie
    6. Dwayne Bravo
    7. Gerry Gomez
    8. Learie Constantine*
    9. Deryck Murray+
    10. Ian Bishop
    11. Sonny Ramadhin

    The Leeward Islands suffer from not having produced many top cricketers for large part of the regions history and despite a period in the 80s and early 90s when they produced a rich crop it's diffcult to see them competing on an equal footing, especially with the bat. That said any side with Richards, Richardson, Ambrose and Andy Roberts can't be totally ignored. Eldine Baptiste maintains his historic Windies role as back up.

    1. Stuart Williams
    2. Keith Arthurton
    3. Viv Richards *
    4. Richie Richardson
    5. Kieran Powell
    6. Ridley Jacobs +
    7. Derick Parry
    8. Winston Benjamin
    9. Kenny Benjamin
    10. Andy Roberts
    11. Curtley Ambrose


    They wouldn't be the whipping boys though, that would be the unfortunate Windward Islands, who lack a single genuine great.

    1. Devon Smith
    2. Andre Fletcher
    3. Irvine Shillingford
    4. Johnson Charles
    5. Darren Sammy*
    6. Junior Murray+
    7. Norbert Phillip
    8. Winston Davis
    9. Shane Shillingford
    10. Nixon McLean
    11. Cameron Cuffy
    Last edited by Etienne; 15-11-2018, 13:25.

    #2
    Jamaica could beat Barbados on a Perth-like wicket (or Jamaica 1986 wicket) but Barbados are going to win 9 times out of 10, with Sobers doing any spin required.

    Barbados also have a handy bench, such as Wayne Daniel and Manny Martindale.

    Patterson could be a liability when the wicket was not fast so I think Valentine would be ahead of him at least half the time. But he, Holding and Gilchrist are arguably the three quickest bowlers the islands have ever produced, albeit not as disciplined as Marshall, Garner Ambrose and Roberts. Over rates might be an issue.

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      #3
      Pah, this would be played under 1980s rules, no faffing about with over rates!

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        #4
        I think Guyana would beat most other teams in Georgetown. And I think T&T would be capable of very good results too.

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          #5
          great work.

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            #6
            Typo: Roger Harper, not Roy, who wrote a famous cricket song

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              #7
              Outstanding, Etienne

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                #8
                I've corrected the spelling of Harper's first name, ta.

                Thanks to dd and ursus for the props. It was a pleasure, and I hope I've not missed anyone glaring. One thing that I couldn't find was decent statistics for domestic cricket, so I've had to base it entirely on international cricket, and there may be some legendary players for their islands who never got a look in internationally for some reason.

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                  #9
                  I also discovered that 'Larry' Gomes was christened Hilary.

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                    #10
                    Excellent thread Sir. Takes me all the way back to the Bourda in 1966 (I was 4)

                    I will spare you the Guyana #2 in only a jockstrap anecdote...
                    Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 15-11-2018, 14:04.

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                      #11
                      And here's the rest of the quiz (match test star to passing Gardner link)

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                        #12
                        Fascinating and thanks. Think Barbados could find a place for Charlie Griffith on a real quick track. He could be terrifying when the muse was with him.

                        Also Sylvester Clarke. A truly intimidating bowler. Sir Viv said that Silvers was the only bowler that worried him.

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                          #13
                          I don't think Griffith had a legitimate action. I think Sylvester Clarke would be in the squad, but I can't see him getting ahead of Hall, Marshall or Garner. It's certainly true that Barbados would have much better strength in depth than anyone else.

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                            #14
                            Guzman Etienne - excellent and fascinating stuff.

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                              #15
                              Excellent thread this, thanks Etienne. For some reason I always thought Jimmy Adams was from Guyana.

                              Have any players played for more than one nation?

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                                #16
                                Wasn't it Arthur Fagg who pulled up Griffith for chucking? He got by other umpires though.

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                                  #17
                                  Impressive work there, Etienne. I think an all-time NZ XI would lose to at least 3 of those countries, at least in the Caribbean. If Hadlee (R) pulls up lame, all bar the Windwards would fancy their chances.

                                  Now off to check 66 Wikipedia entries, looking for a hole a pedant can pick ...

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                                    #18
                                    I think several players have played for more than one team. Marlon Samuels is playing for Windward Islands now, along with fellow Jamaican Nkrumah Bonner for instance.

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                                      #19
                                      Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                      I think several players have played for more than one team. Marlon Samuels is playing for Windward Islands now, along with fellow Jamaican Nkrumah Bonner for instance.
                                      I thought it happened but wasn't common. Cheers Etienne.

                                      Are we going to have a similar post for Australia?

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                                        #20
                                        We could do. With Australia I suspect that difficulties in choosing between great players of different eras might be more acute.

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                                          #21
                                          Brilliant thread

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                                            #22
                                            ^ This. For me, it's an education.

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                                              #23
                                              Go on then, here's Australia. Unlike the Carribbean, loads of players have played for multiple states. Where someone has played for more than one I've given first refusal to the state they played the majority of the time for, and if there wasn't much to choose from, then the state of origin. I've not picked players who played for one state for a couple of seasons only, even if they would have got into that state team.

                                              Starting with relative newbies, Western Australia. Batting solid, but unspectacular. That rare thing, a specialist captain, Inverarity was a hugely successful skipper, though he was probably in with a shout for his batting alone. Pace bowling would be the strength of the team, and Perth wouldn't be a ground anyone would fancy visiting. Mitchell Johnson would have made that even more the case, and he played half his career here, but Queensland gets him on state of origin rule. It may be that the demands of keeping to such fine bowlers might have earned Rod Marsh a call up as the keeper with Gilchrist playing as a specialist batsman.

                                              Western Australia
                                              1. Justin Langer
                                              2. Simon Katich
                                              3. John Inverarity *
                                              4. Damien Martyn
                                              5. Mike Hussey
                                              6. Adam Gilchrist +
                                              7. Bruce Yardley
                                              8. Dennis Lillee
                                              9. Graham McKenzie
                                              10. Bruce Reid
                                              11. Terry Alderman

                                              Brisbane is renowned as Australia's stronghold, would the Gabbatoir be as formidable for Queensland? Probably not, despite some good recruitment from other states, (Chappell, Border and Thompson all started elsewhere). Another intimidating pace bowling attack and some great batsmen, but some weaknesses too - no spinner, and the middle order looks less than stellar.

                                              Queensland
                                              1. Matthew Hayden
                                              2. Bill Brown
                                              3. Greg Chappell
                                              4. Allan Border *
                                              5. Peter Burge
                                              6. Shane Watson (also played for Tasmania and NSW)
                                              7. Ian Healy+
                                              8. Mitchell Johnson
                                              9. Craig McDermott
                                              10. Geoff Dymock
                                              11. Jeff Thompson

                                              The question for South Australia as a contender is ... just HOW good is Don Bradman. He's got two greats from the early days of the game in Hill and Giffen, and two very good spinners. The rest are high class international players, but not greats of the game. But would you bet against any team with Bradman in it?

                                              South Australia
                                              1. Clem Hill
                                              2. Greg Blewett
                                              3. Don Bradman
                                              4. Ian Chappell *
                                              5. Darren Lehmann
                                              6. George Giffen
                                              7. Gil Langley+
                                              8. Ryan Harris
                                              9. Jason Gillespie
                                              10. Clarrie Grimmett
                                              11. Ashley Mallett

                                              The whipping boys would be Tasmania. Ponting and Boon would provide some runs, but the rest of the batting is less good. Cox and di Venuto scored a shedload of runs at Shield level and both would have played a lot of tests if they'd been born 10 years later. The bowling is marginally better.
                                              Tasmania
                                              1. Michael di Venuto
                                              2. Jamie Cox
                                              3. David Boon
                                              4. Ricky Ponting *
                                              5. George Bailey
                                              6. Tim Paine +
                                              7. James Faulkner
                                              8. Damien Wright
                                              9. Jackson Bird
                                              10. Colin Miller
                                              11. Ben Hilfenhaus

                                              The eternal battle in Australia is between Melbourne and Sydney, and in cricket between Victoria and New South Wales. And the Victorian side is very good. Very very good really. The batting, Neil Harvey apart, is more notable for it's solidity than it's aesthetics, but Keith Miller and Shane Warne provide the glamour. But overall, it doesn't look quite as strong as you might expect an all time Victorian team to look.

                                              Victoria
                                              1. Bill Lawry
                                              2. Bill Ponsford
                                              3. Lindsay Hassett
                                              4. Neil Harvey
                                              5. Dean Jones
                                              6. Ian Redpath
                                              7. Keith Miller
                                              8. Shane Warne *
                                              9. Jack Blackham +
                                              10. Bill Johnston
                                              11. Hugh Trumble

                                              And then the real deal. The Barbados or Yorkshire of Australian states. So many greats to pick from. This team would have been amazing in any conditions, and frankly you could pick an entirely different side and say the same thing - an alternative side could have chosen from: Archie Jackson, Bob Simpson, Alan Kippax (averaged 70 in first class cricket) Charlie MacCartney, Doug Walters, Mark Waugh, Michael Clarke, Stan McCabe, Jack Gregory, Brett Lee, Richie Benaud, Nathan Lyon, Fred Spofforth, Charles Turner, J.J Ferris etc etc.

                                              NSW

                                              1. Arthur Morris
                                              2. Warren Bardsley
                                              3. Steven Smith
                                              4. Victor Trumper
                                              5. Monty Noble
                                              6. Steve Waugh *
                                              7. Bert Oldfield +
                                              8. Alan Davidson
                                              9. Ray Lindwall
                                              10. Bill O'Reilly
                                              11. Glenn McGrath

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                                                #24
                                                Great work Etienne, the sides are also very dated with some being almost full of modern players and others full of legends. Tasmania have a great batting line up and could do something if they won the toss.

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                                                  #25
                                                  Well, the variation in the sides make up is partly inevitable. Queensland didn't join the Sheffield Shield until the 20s, Western Australia didn't join full time until the 50s, and Tasmania only were added in the late 70s, so all of them are more restricted.

                                                  I'm not sure if Tasmania was a typo in the last post, their batting is comfortably the worst of those teams, despite Ponting and Boon.

                                                  I should say, I ignored all overseas players too.

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