Brexit: March for a People's Vote, London, 20 October

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

I didn't want this to get lost quickly in the active general Brexit thread, so I'm posting it as a new thread.

There's a march for a People's Vote (i.e. a new referendum on whatever crappy deal/no deal proposal Brexit ends up being), in central London on 20 October

Link here to details etc: https://www.peoples-vote.uk/march

I would urge, no fuck it, I would practically BEG, as many of you as possible to join that march. I'll be travelling into London that day to participate.

Brexit will/would be the biggest, most long-term damaging, self-inflicted catastrophe Britain has faced since the end of WW2. I can't just sit at home while this march is happening.

To avoid making poverty worse, to protect peace in Northern Ireland, to stop families being divided and people losing their rights of residence and their jobs as the bastards in the Home Office get a free rein to ruin more lives, to stop our NHS haemorrhaging vital staff, to stop shitty aggro for people coming into the UK (or Europe from the UK) come on, be there, please!

[Duncan Gardner]

Afternoon EEG. Had many similar invites this weekend- I was at the Green Party Conference in Bristol.

Interestingly Lucas told a fringe that supporting the 2016 Ref was her biggest mistake in politics.

I'd be wary about generalised predictions of violence in NI (I know you have close family there). There might equally be disorder in Dudley (70% Leave) or chaos in Cambs

[johnr]

EEG, are you able to clarify whether the march is for a binary, or 3 way vote, it doesn't say on that link? No snark intended, I've been asking leaders of the campaign for a while, and I never get any answer.

[Duncan Gardner]

The vagueness is deliberate. Lucas couldnt/ wouldnt say either

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

EEG, are you able to clarify whether the march is for a binary, or 3 way vote,

I honestly don't know, but I am assuming that Remain should be an option, and I would imagine binary as in Remain vs whatever Theresa May has achieved. But that's jsut my assumption. I've no doubt that's what the vast majority of those marching will want. A vote on Remain vs reality of Leave, as opposed to the vote in 2016 which was Remain vs false promises of what Leave would mean.

[Tubby Isaacs]

Afternoon EEG. Had many similar invites this weekend- I was at the Green Party Conference in Bristol.

Interestingly Lucas told a fringe that supporting the 2016 Ref was her biggest mistake in politics.

I'd be wary about generalised predictions of violence in NI (I know you have close family there). There might equally be disorder in Dudley (70% Leave) or chaos in Cambs

Fair play to Lucas there for that.

[johnr]

I honestly don't know, but I am assuming that Remain should be an option, and I would imagine binary as in Remain vs whatever Theresa May has achieved. But that's jsut my assumption. I've no doubt that's what the vast majority of those marching will want. A vote on Remain vs reality of Leave, as opposed to the vote in 2016 which was Remain vs false promises of what Leave would mean.

Thanks. I can't yet see, politically, how No Deal can be kept out of the vote, and I guess the vagueness is because nobody else can either.

[Duncan Gardner]

Aye. But if May caves in and either accepts another Ref (or an election which the Tories lose) there will be widespread anger anyway. Thats what happens when 2 blocs of 45%+ cant compromise. Sound familiar?

Anecdotally most Greens this w/e seemed to favor 3 options- Remain, Chequers amended and HB

[Ginger Yellow]

What's the point in having no deal on the ballot? There's no majority for any deal on the table, so no deal is what we get by default. If you want no deal, just oppose having a referendum in the first place.

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

Remain, Chequers amended and HB

For Christ's sake, DG, don't abbreviate hard Brexit to "HB"! If that catches on, shit-stains like Rees-Mogg will start quipping about putting lead in our pencils.

[Duncan Gardner]

Doesnt seem to be a prob for Jake's own peg

[San Bernardhinault]

"People's Vote" is such a fucking terrible phrase. It sounds Blairite, and it means nothing. All elections are people's votes. The initial referendum was a people's vote. Could someone find something less idiotic, so I don't feel like such a fraudulent moron when I support the idea of a referendum on a final deal?

[ursus arctos]

#ThisTimeItCounts

[Evariste Euler Gauss]

"People's Vote" is such a fucking terrible phrase.

Yeah, I can't argue with that. It's pretty awful. But it's the expression used by the crowd who are making the running re getting some momentum for a new referendum. To be fair to it, I'm guessing it was originally coined as a contrast to mere Parliamentary approval of the Government's Brexit decision (which was fought for by Gina Miller in our courts, successfully on the legal point but of course to no avail ultimately as Parliament waved Brexit through).

[Duncan Gardner]

Enjoyable day out in the Smoke. I spent the morning in Mayfair chatting to fellow Greens and other early arriving protesters, directing out-of-towners to loos, cafes and meeting points, and of course visiting my old haunts as an office jockey in the early 90's...

Asked to guess the numbers in various messages I said 50- 75,000

Nef and others in the Brexit thread mentioned a predominance of Liberal Middle-Englanders. Perhaps, but the huge number is significant, not just its less than diverse make-up. Most people I spoke to were Green but clearly that was down to organisational/ logistic plans. The Green contingent met outside a Church near Berkeley Square, the latter was too big for us?

Non-League excursion to Carshalton- Potters Bar laters, I caught up with the speeches on You Tube

The Green Monopoly Board:

[linus]

Isn't there a bit of irony in demonstrating under the motto of "standing up for real democracy" when their goal is to overturn a choice made by the majority of the population?

[Etienne]

Their goal is for the majority of the population to have a chance to change their mind.

[Snake Plissken]

Considering the 2017 referendum overturns a previous referendum from the 1970s, no.

[Flynnie]

Considering EU and non-EU non-Commonwealth/Ireland citizens couldn’t vote, I reject the premise that a majority of the population voted to Leave. When you consider that a likely not insignificant number of Brexit voters are dead from old age, then...

[Duncan Gardner]

Democracy is a process, not an event

[San Bernardhinault]

I reject the premise that it was a reasonable referendum. It was a choice between a specific option (status quo) and a super-vague alternative. Direct democracy generally doesn't work like that. The correct form for the referendum would have been to offer a choice between the status quo and a specific negotiated alternative.

The only reasonable thing to do - if we're going to have referenda at all - would be to offer a referendum on any final negotiated settlement, giving the public a choice between the current status quo and that settlement.

[Snake Plissken]

It wasn't vague. In fact, it was very specific.

However, the specific bits were outright lies.

[George C.]

Which bits?

[Flynnie]

[George C.]

They were pretty vague concepts though. I like what San B says.

Even now, even the most ardent Brexiteer is wholly clueless.