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Jamal Khashoggi

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    #51
    https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1053728801816018945

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      #52
      Being permitted to lie without boundaries makes life much easier for the politician https://twitter.com/mickhodgkin/status/1053758963227996162?s=21

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        #53
        US secret service prevents journalist asking Kushner questions
        Last edited by Nefertiti2; 21-10-2018, 14:39.

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          #54
          https://twitter.com/jm_mcgrath/status/1054010876284600320?s=19

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            #55
            Not only did they send a bonesaw to this simple bureaucratic meeting, but they also sent a body double, who then went out wandering round Istanbul in Khashoggi's clothes https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/22/m...hes/index.html

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              #56
              So quite literally a cover up.

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                #57
                Will there be repercussions for Turkey for exposing this?

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                  #58
                  MBS claimed that the Turks were one point of the "Triangle of Evil" (along with Iran and Islamist terrorists) last year and the Turks took the Qatari side in that kerfuffle, so there isn't much more room for political repercussions.

                  That said, there are still significant economic ties, which will surely come under pressure. The fact that Turkey can really use Saudi money in its current economic downturn is a major reason why they haven't released the tapes (the other being concern over revealing the sources and methods used to produce them)

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                    #59
                    Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                    the other being concern over revealing the sources and methods used to produce them
                    That was the first thing that occurred to me. They would have to admit they bug the Saudi Embassy which breaks international protocol (although we know everyone does it)

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                      #60
                      Even more concerning to them is the fact that the tapes can almost certainly be reverse engineered to reveal how they do it.

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                        #61
                        I assume the fact that Erdoğan said yesterday that he will make a speech tomorrow revealing everything "in full nakedness" *, thereby giving the Saudis 48 hours to do a deal with him says a lot

                        (*the truth, not Tayyip)

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                          #62
                          Reports now that Khashoggi's murder may have been live streamed back to Riyadh.

                          Fucking. Hell.

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                            #63
                            Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
                            That was the first thing that occurred to me. They would have to admit they bug the Saudi Embassy which breaks international protocol (although we know everyone does it)
                            The first leaks of what happened inside the consulate were said to be because it was bugged, it was only later they said it was because of his watch etc.

                            If this was live streamed then it could have been intercepted surely?

                            I wonder how much Erdoğan will reveal tomorrow.

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                              #64
                              The watch story was almost immediately shot down as an attempt to mask sources and methods.

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                I think the double standards concerning Yemen is a more direct point without needing to go back to the Cold War or even 9/11 involvement, partly because Yemen is another MBS project.
                                Bin Salman is himself a project of the neocon wing of the US deep state and Israel, hence his personal relationship with Kushner and his recent trip to Israel. Khashoggi represents the more conservative Saudi/American deep state, side that wants more stability and continuity, and side that got recently overthrown in a palace coup with the help of foreign mercenaries.

                                The Saudis and US/NATO have been implementing the Phoenix Plan in Yemen, which consists of mass assassinations of civic leaders and any potential political opposition, as well as the destabilization of the target country through terror campaigns. The program was perfected in South Vietnam, where tens of thousands of targeted assassinations of of Vietnamese civilians were carried over by death squads and clandestine operatives, a chapter of the Vietnam War that got a few seconds in Ken Burns' 17 hour VN series. The model was also implemented in places like Indonesia in the 60s, and El Salvador/Nicaragua in the 80s, and more recently in Honduras with the assassination of civic leaders like Berta Caceres.

                                In Yemen though nearly all the assassinations have been carried by Blackwater-type mercenaries. Saudi Arabia doesn't have much of a standing army, for fear of a military coup (which was the pattern observed in most Arab countries; Syria, Iraq, Libya, Egypt etc). Their armed forces are pretty much a payoff program for US protection of their regime, spending tens of billions annually on expensive systems they don't need.

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                                  #66
                                  Erdoğan due to speak at 8.45 GMT.

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                                    #67
                                    So Erdogan keeps things alive and allows space for more diplomatic wrangling. States clearly that he believes Saudi king but pointedly says no such thing about MbS . Clearly premeditated as the Saudis scoped out forests near Istanbul the day before.

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                                      #68
                                      Clearly premeditated as the Saudis scoped out forests near Istanbul the day before.
                                      At what point in the recent past has OTF began quoting anything Erdogan says as fact?

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                                        #69
                                        I was summarising the speech and the new information in it. As you know

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                                          #70
                                          https://twitter.com/lrozen/status/1054725797666267141

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                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Tactical Genius View Post
                                            At what point in the recent past has OTF began quoting anything Erdogan says as fact?
                                            What do you doubt?

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                                              #72
                                              Erdogan is a habitual liar, and a hypocrite, because he's got a recent history of offing journalists himself, like Lebanese American reporter Serena Shem in 2014, shortly after she did an expose on the collaboration between Turkey and ISIS and other jihadi militias, while she was stationed on the Turkish border near Kobane.

                                              https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/co...rkey-last-year

                                              https://www.globalresearch.ca/americ...-daesh/5551946

                                              In this case though, we know he is telling the truth about the Saudi hit squad's murder of Khashoggi. He's been playing the Saudis like a fiddle, using this event to inflict maximum PR damage on his regional rival MbS. He did this by hiding the fact that he had all the details down to the audio of the murder, which made the Saudis look like blatant clumsy liars at each stage of their denials.

                                              The Saudi secret services aren't very sophisticated, because they're mainly set up to spy on and control their mostly compliant domestic population, as opposed to engaging in foreign operations intrigue on the turf of sophisticated intelligence branches like Turkey's MIT. Their lack of sophistication and shear dumb brutality also reflects that of their new leader.

                                              The Saudi royal family has dozens of intelligent, capable and even higher-minded leaders among the younger generation of Abdul-Aziz grandsons who could do a solid job of modernizing their country and building a more stable future for their people and the region. MbS is the very bottom of that barrel, among the most degenerate, vain and least deserving of his generation, that's why he was groomed and put in power in a palace coup.
                                              Last edited by linus; 23-10-2018, 22:15.

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                                                #73
                                                Great post Linus. Thanks for the links.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Cheers AE.

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                                                    #75
                                                    There are many people who feel The Bodyguard was too unbelievable. It has nothing on this.

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