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    #26
    Originally posted by WOM View Post
    Sure...rub it in, just as he's getting over it.
    Some wall, that!

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      #27
      I think the May Ball thing at Oxbridge shows how deep the connection between private schools and those two universities is. Obviously there are a ton of normal kids at Oxford and Cambridge and I assume a bunch of normals who attend these shindigs. But the whole concept, the whole culture (of the balls) seems to come directly from that sector of society. And what's telling is that they don't happen anywhere else*. Are there kids from the more expensive schools who go to redbricks? If so how do they satisfy their deep seated need to dress in white tie and bathe in champagne?

      We had things called balls at my university, but they were simply large scale concerts with multiple stages in the Students Union building.

      (*I think anyway. Do they happen at places like Durham and St Andrews?)

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        #28
        Originally posted by Lucy Waterman View Post
        Afraid I was being facetious.

        She is actually the first lady of Cambodia.
        Oh... you tease. Some fun Googling does pick up this though - https://socinsights.weebly.com/blog/...stian#comments

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          #29
          I cannot tell you how many times every day I find myself thinking, "What would Dana Malmstrom think of that?"

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            #30
            Originally posted by WOM View Post
            And whither Benita Douglas-Robertson? I'd love to hear her thoughts on that pic today.
            A little earlier. his is Nina Mary Benita Douglas-Hamilton (née Poore), Duchess of Hamilton, photographed in 1926. Wife of the 13th Duke of Hamilton.

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              #31
              Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
              Do they happen at places like Durham and St Andrews?
              Yes at Durham and I'd be surprised if there wasn't something similar at St Andrews. The big difference at the collegiate universities (Oxbridge and Durham) is that the balls are arranged at college level so, even though some are biennial and others jointly arranged by smaller institutions, there are lots of them.

              Despite the self-consciously anachronistic feel of the events, I'd expect them to be spreading elsewhere rather than dying off, simply because the number of universities that are known for having a significant posho contingent seems to grow as the years pass.

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                #32
                Yes, this kind of thing is definitely part of the Zeitgeist now (just as it was an object of derision when I was at uni)

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                  #33
                  Originally posted by ad hoc View Post
                  We had things called balls at my university,
                  Mine, too, but they scratched them when things got too hairy.

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                    #34
                    Originally posted by Benjm View Post
                    Yes at Durham and I'd be surprised if there wasn't something similar at St Andrews. The big difference at the collegiate universities (Oxbridge and Durham) is that the balls are arranged at college level so, even though some are biennial and others jointly arranged by smaller institutions, there are lots of them.

                    Despite the self-consciously anachronistic feel of the events, I'd expect them to be spreading elsewhere rather than dying off, simply because the number of universities that are known for having a significant posho contingent seems to grow as the years pass.
                    I don't think you need that many posho students for a ball. There's lot of dressing up now- my family had to put on "black tie" to go and see my nephew doing charity boxing.

                    I'd ban dinner jackets myself.

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                      #35
                      Charity boxing in Worcester.

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                        #36
                        The road to re-instituting the Gilded Age has certainly taken some detours

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                          #37
                          I don't mind dinner jackets. You need one for life, basically, or maybe one every 15 years as you get fatter. It's a very simple uniform for looking kind of polite. What I'd try and ban is the ballgown (or whatever the correct term is) nonsense for women, where they need a different one for every occasion, putting way more cost and social pressure on.

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                            #38
                            If dinner jackets are banned nobody can need one. But I agree, they're painless compared with ball gowns.

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                              #39
                              Bunch of men banning ball gowns....

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                                #40
                                Originally posted by WOM View Post
                                Mine, too, but they scratched them when things got too hairy.
                                This delighted me, thank you.

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                                  #41
                                  <Nods humbly.>

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                                    #42
                                    Originally posted by Vicarious Thrillseeker View Post
                                    A little earlier. his is Nina Mary Benita Douglas-Hamilton (née Poore), Duchess of Hamilton, photographed in 1926. Wife of the 13th Duke of Hamilton.

                                    Phwoar! Look at the dogs on that!

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                                      #43
                                      Originally posted by San Bernardhinault View Post
                                      I don't mind dinner jackets. You need one for life, basically, or maybe one every 15 years as you get fatter.
                                      I have needed a dinner jacket once in my life, for a wedding. I rented one, obviously. I genuinely don't ever encounter events that require them.

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                                        #44
                                        I've managed to live for seven decades without one. Can't say I felt deprived.

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                                          #45
                                          When I was an undergraduate in Cambridge in the early '80s, I got invited to a formal College feast which was black tie. I had no dinner jacket at the time, and was a bit of a self-righteous leftie, so I replied to the College's invitation with the passive aggressive point that I would love to come but couldn't as I didn't have a DJ. The College steward, no doubt with a weary raise of his eyebrows, immediately sent me a note saying he was sorry to get my message and wanted to emphasise that if I did not have, and could not hire, a dinner jacket, then I should feel welcome to come in a suit. I was sufficiently shamed that I immediately went out and picked up a perfectly fine second hand DJ for fifteen quid at one of the Cambridge market stalls.

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                                            #46
                                            So that was you sliding down the marquee roof...or sliding up Ms Penelope Featherstone-Haugh....

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                                              #47
                                              Originally posted by Tubby Isaacs View Post
                                              my family had to put on "black tie" to go and see my nephew doing charity boxing.
                                              I'm as surprised by the boxing as the dressing up. My Dad used to go to boxing nights at the town hall in the '70s, sporting the decade's ruffled and velvet heavy evening wear naturally, but I thought that those had gone out with Euston Films. Does the charity angle give it sufficient respectability?


                                              I don't own a dinner jacket. If an event requires one, it is a strong sign that non attendance might not be a huge loss (college reunions included).

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                                                #48
                                                Does "dinner jacket" = "tuxedo?"

                                                Fortunately, it appears that fashion has moved forward such that what counts as black-tie/tuxedo now looks almost like a regular suit. The bow-tie, cummerbund and, ffs, the frills, are gone. It also appears that its become more acceptable to just go with a big group of people without everyone in the group being attached to a particular "date." To know all you need to about this tradition - which seems to be almost universal in the US, but nowhere else - I recommend this old episode of This American Life.
                                                https://www.thisamericanlife.org/186/prom

                                                I attended a grand total of one "formal" at college. A girl I knew but wasn't really interested in needed a date to her sorority's spring formal so I went along. But the dress standard was just jacket and tie. It was shit. Of course, I thought everything was shit in those days. Maybe it actually was.

                                                Sororities and fraternities held these events at least once a year, usually in a hotel ballroom. As far as I know, nobody really enjoys them and the men in particular only wanted to go if they had a girlfriend who enjoys them, or maybe even they don't really want to either. I've met young women who appear to be really enthusiastic about "dressing up," but maybe they're just saying that because it is expected.

                                                I suppose that sort of nonsense was/is more popular in the south, but I think the "greek" organizations and some other organizations - ROTC, for example - at most universities still have them. Whenever that time of year rolls around here, one can see groups of students coming and going from such things. The men are, apparently, just expected to wear a jacket and tie. A regular suit, at most. Not a tux. The look for women seems to be impractical shoes with a short and tight dress, rather than the more Grace Kelly-esque poofy dresses of yore. On many occasions, I've nodded politely while older people have given me their unsolicited opinion about how "slutty" (or similar adjective) the "girls these days" dress. I refuse to engage that discourse. I believe that women can and must sort all that out for themselves. But their outfits do look very uncomfortable, however. And it all seems a bit silly.

                                                It appears to me that "kids today" both high school and college, are more open to these kinds of traditional events sponsored by their school. Not because they want to engage in any kind of "we're rich and you're not" twattery - because, at least the kids I know aren't rich - but because they genuinely enjoy the group dynamics and so forth. In my day, we all thought we were too cool to go to a homecoming dance, for example, and hardly anyone would go to sporting events unless they were on the team, in the band, or directly related to somebody participating. And even then, it was important to perform at least a bit of ironic detachment and at least a bit of disdain for anything that was officially sanctioned by the school or one's parents. But not TOO much disdain and detachment, because it was still important to pad one's college applications and get into a good college. Irony upon irony.

                                                But somewhere in the late 90s or, more likely, the early to mid-2000s, all that post-modern, detached, slacker, too-cool-for-school attitude got really tiresome. It was tiresome when I was participating in it. The kids I know are not afraid to admit they care about stuff. Or that they enjoy "dorky" things. They go to the football games and cheer for the team. They want to go to the homecoming parade and the dance. But they also do things like mass walk-outs to protest gun violence. We never would have done that. It would have been too sincere. Too earnest. And too likely to draw criticism from the people who always criticize those things.
                                                Last edited by Hot Pepsi; 17-09-2018, 19:52.

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                                                  #49
                                                  The article quotes Tina Brown as creating the term "sod you tories." I always thought she was one of them. Maybe I misjudged.

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                                                    #50
                                                    Brown is from an arty, rather than posh family. She married into her title.

                                                    Very, very few people over here care, which is part of the reason why she's here.

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