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Amazon-ing Disgrace: US Open (tennis) 2018

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    #51
    The trophy presentation looks like being a mess. I would have thought they would rethink whether it's a good idea to still do it on court.

    Osaka looks totally distraught; grossly unfair to put her through this presentation.

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      #52
      absolutely

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        #53
        Tough on Rinaldi to have to do the interviews.

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          #54
          Hopefully Osaka will win several more Slams and get to enjoy each moment properly. Not sure Serena would want to carry on, partly because I think she is likely to keep falling just short; at this point in her career, there seems to be at least one better player in each Slam (Kerber at Wimbledon, Osaka here).

          OTOH she won't want to bow out in this manner, so who knows?

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            #55
            Was Serena not getting coached, then? If she was, surely there has to some rigorous sanction if she subsequently kicks off at the umpire like that. It's the sort of conduct that, if it happened in a football game, would deserve a card for sure.
            Last edited by diggedy derek; 08-09-2018, 22:39.

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              #56
              She seems to have a huge sense of entitlement but that's not unusual in top-level sport.

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                #57
                Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                She seems to have a huge sense of entitlement but that's not unusual in top-level sport.
                Athletes are frequently hard to like.

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                  #58
                  She was saying to the match referees (I think) that men do much worse all the time, which I can well imagine. Dunno though, I hate to see referees or umpires of any sport get verbal abuse, let alone getting called a cheat, so she's not blameless.

                  At least the thread title now fits (whichever way you assign blame).

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                    #59
                    Was Serena not getting coached, then?
                    The general impression I'm getting from commentary is that her coach was just doing what all coaches do dozens of times a match with no sanction at all. I've not yet heard any expert commentator suggest that the original code violation for "coaching" was justified. It's not difficult to see how Serena could have felt unfairly singled out. But certainly she should have handled it better, and has mainly herself to blame for the game penalty.

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                      #60
                      Didn't actually see this but regarding a lot of the comments on Twitter and so on that men get away with worse abuse, it's surely the 'thief' label with its questioning of integrity that's got her in particular trouble here. It's not especially surprising that an official in any sport would react worse to that than to simply being sworn at or having their competence questioned.

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                        #61
                        Not a word of criticism of her on ESPN, which seems to position itself as the Serena channel.

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                          #62
                          The general impression I'm getting from commentary is that her coach was just doing what all coaches do dozens of times a match with no sanction at all. I've not yet heard any expert commentator suggest that the original code violation for "coaching" was justified.
                          Yeah, this makes sense. I mean, if a coach is just nodding and giving it all 'get stuck in', could that be taken as tactical guidance? I guess it could, but it would be a treacherous minefield, in the same way that Darrell Hair wading into ball tampering against the Pakistanis seemed clear evidence of bad faith.

                          I'm a little unclear why coaching during the match would be such a grave threat the integrity of the game (trainers in boxing bring an extra dimension to the sport) but then again I don't know tennis at all.

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                            #63
                            SSK, yeah, that's my point, as soon as integrity of officials is questioned in any sport, there needs to be a sanction, even if what went before was unjustified.

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                              #64
                              I think she was subconsciously hoping for the game penalty at that point, having been considering quitting the match beforehand. The game penalty made the result certain because of how well Osaka was playing.

                              To me the blow-ups down the years make me question her GOAT status. Not in the McEnroe sense because I think there was some gamesmanship in his tantrums (they made him play better and threw the opponent off) but in the way that she sabotages her own chances by not rising above whatever the officials are doing. If she's the best, she can overcome a bad call or a dodgy coaching violation. Certainly there have been better women players in terms of mental toughness.

                              I'm disappointed that ESPN fails to even entertain the possibility she was at fault for blowing up, plus the amnesia over the fact she's done it before on the same court.
                              Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 08-09-2018, 23:23.

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                                #65
                                The same umpire apparently gave Venus a coaching violation previously. Serena's been saying the behaviour might be sexist, but I'm wondering about racist tbh.

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                                  #66
                                  "Certainly there have been better women players in terms of mental toughness." Yeah, but none in the open era who have won 23 majors. I've never known any player like Serena, male or female. And I grew up through the era of Steffi Graf.

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                                    #67
                                    Originally posted by Jimski View Post
                                    The same umpire apparently gave Venus a coaching violation previously. Serena's been saying the behaviour might be sexist, but I'm wondering about racist tbh.
                                    Yes, that's my feeling too

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                                      #68
                                      Typically great Jonathan Liew piece in the Indy today

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                                        #69
                                        This is very fair also. I think Williams might have a point about the initial call. But after that having everyone suck the life out of Osaka's achievement is really unfair https://nypost.com/2018/09/08/its-sh...o-naomi-osaka/

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by diggedy derek View Post
                                          Typically great Jonathan Liew piece in the Indy today
                                          It is good (here https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-a8529611.html)

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                                            #71
                                            Yeah that NY Post is quite convincing also.

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                                              #72
                                              Absolutely. Just one quibble about it, in that the crowd were presumably booing the umpire, not Osaka. But collectively the officials, the crowd and Serena did very badly by Osaka. The huge amount of dosh and the trophy will be considerable comfort I'm sure, so I'm not going to lose sleep over it, but I do hope she wins another slam soon in better circumstances.

                                              As a more general comment, the Flushing Meadows crowd very frequently strikes me as having more than its fair share of arseholes.

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                                                #73
                                                "When asked if her childhood dream of playing against Williams matched the reality, she politely sidestepped the question."

                                                Rinaldi should have omitted that question but I think he was a rabbit in the headlights.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Fuck everybody involved except Osaka - is my considered take on the matter.

                                                  A basic rule of a media shitstorm is that you can't wrest the story back from what it has become, you can only add fuel to the fire. Osaka could have done that with a different reaction (and quite a few players would have) but instead shows quiet, moving dignity, and therefore gets bumped from the headlines. Getting told at the presentation "it''s not the outcome we wanted" deserves a middle finger from the winner. And a fucking grovelling apology afterwards.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Getting told at the presentation "it''s not the outcome we wanted" deserves a middle finger from the winner. And a fucking grovelling apology afterwards.
                                                    Absolutely. The US Open has fucked up badly this year. Selling UK TV rights to Amazon was just the start.

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