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Country v country line ups in major finals

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    Country v country line ups in major finals

    Ireland v Holland in the womens' hockey got me thinking if there had ever been a big thing before that ended up Ireland v Holland. Can't think of one. That got me thinking about if there are any big final showdowns that have been replicated? Have France played Croatia in a Davis Cup final, for example? Or did Boris Becker win one of his Grand Slams against an Argentine?
    Last edited by Rogin the Armchair fan; 04-08-2018, 17:30.

    #2
    France vs Croatia sounds like it would be a high level handball match

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      #3
      (West) Germany and Argentina have played each other in a Women's Hockey World Cup final previously. They did so before they meant in a Men's Football Final, in fact (1976).
      And ad hoc is right, France and Croatia is a storied rivalry (to use an Americanism) in Handball terms. They played each other in the 1995 Men's Handball World Championships Final (France won), and have also met in three Men's Olympic Semi-Finals (two wins for France, one for Croatia).

      Whilst on a Handball front, Germany and Denmark met in the 1993 Women's Handball World Championship final, which took place in Norway. Germany got revenge in that one for events across the border the year before.
      Last edited by Janik; 04-08-2018, 17:56.

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        #4
        Ireland beat Netherlands in the final of the 1996 European Cricket Championship. However I don't think you'd find many people describing that as a major final.

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          #5
          The most recent knockout game between France and Croatia was the quarterfinals of the 2013 World Championship. Before that 2009 World and 2010 European finals were this fixture (France winning on both occasions).

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            #6
            In 2008, Germany v Spain in both the men's hockey and Euro 2008

            2012 Olympic men's hockey final was Germany v Netherlands, duplicating 1974 WC

            Duplicates of Olympic men's hockey and World Cup cricket:

            Pakistan v Australia
            New Zealand v Australia

            IIRC 1988 GB v Germany hockey final was (incorrectly) compared to the football rivalry
            Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 05-08-2018, 09:58.

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              #7
              I guess Football will be the best source of unique clashes, as it is the World's most diversely played sport. I find it hard to think of another sport where both Brazil and Sweden or Czechoslovakia will have met in a World level final. Brazil has had high end champion Tennis players (Maria Bueno, Gustavo Kuerten) but they have tended to be isolated cases and I doubt they have ever made a Davis or Fed Cup Final as the Swedes and Czechs have done multiple times. Both Sweden and Czech Rep play Volleyball reasonably seriously, but not I think ever in the Brazil/Russia/USA/Cuba class. Likewise Brazil have never been at the top table of handball as the Swedes and Czechoslovaks have been (dating the period by name!).

              I was wondering if England-Germany had ever been repeated in another sport, as there is not a lot of crossover in interests there either, but as SD notes above there was a famous Men's Hockey Olympic final. And having thought, there was also a Women's Football Euro Final (that Germany won 6-2). So that leaves us with Britain or England vs Holland from the last Olympics... there have been big Football occasions between the two, most recently the Semi of the last Women's Euros, but neither country makes the finals that often and never against each other.

              Going the other way, Australia and Holland have met countless times in major Men's and Women's Hockey matches. But I'm struggling to think of any other sporting overlap between the two.

              As for cricket, Pakistan beat England in a World Cup Final played in Australia back in the Imran Khan/Waqar/Wasim days. That must be the only time those two countries have played each other in a significant world final.
              Last edited by Janik; 05-08-2018, 11:32.

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                #8
                Given that Germany, Australia, the Netherlands and Great Britain are all very competitive in track cycling, I would expect that World and/or Olympic Team Pursuit/Team Sprint finals will have matched them up within the last quarter century or so.

                Just picking one at random, the 2010 World finals in both men's and women's Team Pursuit were "Ashes" matchups.

                Somewhat similarly, the medalists in the Men's Eight (rowing) at Rio were GB, Germany and the Netherlands.
                Last edited by ursus arctos; 05-08-2018, 11:48.

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                  #9
                  Is there a Davis Cup equivalent in Squash? That's about the only other sport I can imagine England and Pakistan meeting up like that. Was a World Open final ever contested between one of the Khans and an Englishman?

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                    #10
                    Actually, there is. And England and Pakistan must have played finals plural between the 60s and 90s, as long as the competition dates back that far. It would be entirely historic, though - Pakistan are no longer any sort of force in the Squash world. The last time I looked they didn't have a player in either top 50 (not that they ever had players in the Women's one but y'know...). And that isn't just a bad year/injury, it's been like that for a decade or more.

                    As for individual World Open or British Open finals, Jansher definitely played Pete Nicol in some of those. Possibly before Nicol switched allegiance from Scotland to England, though. Going well further back to the generation before Jahangir/Jansher there will have been others involving Hashim (I think it was) and players like Jonah Barrington.
                    Last edited by Janik; 05-08-2018, 12:30.

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                      #11
                      Checked and yes they did. Pakistan v Australia too.

                      I've only just now remembered that Australia v New Zealand was the final of both the Cricket and Rugby Union World Cup in 2015, and has been the final of most of the Rugby League World Cups I can recall.
                      Last edited by Rogin the Armchair fan; 05-08-2018, 13:09.

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                        #12
                        Brazil v Sweden - 2000 French Open Kuerten v Norman

                        England v Pakistan - 1992 cricket World Cup final

                        West Germany v Czechoslovakia - Becker v Lendl, 1986 Wimbledon; Graf v Sukova twice and Novotna once

                        West Germany v USSR - Graf v Zvereva 1987 French

                        West Germany v Argentina - Graf v Sabatini three times

                        West Germany v Spain - Graf v Sanchez Vicario six times
                        Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 05-08-2018, 15:20.

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                          #13
                          In the opening post I wondered if France had ever met Croatia in a Davis Cup final...!

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
                            Checked and yes they did. Pakistan v Australia too.

                            I've only just now remembered that Australia v New Zealand was the final of both the Cricket and Rugby Union World Cup in 2015, and has been the final of most of the Rugby League World Cups I can recall.
                            True, though England have played Australia in the World Cup finals of cricket, RU and RL.

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                              #15
                              Argentina

                              As well as West Germany v Argentina in the Women's World Cup final in hockey (mentioned above by Janik), Argentina have also met the Netherlands in the final in 1974, 2002 and 2010. And the 1978, 1981 and 1986 finals were all West Germany v Netherlands.

                              Argentina v Chile was not only the final of the 2015 Copa América and the Copa América Centenario, it was also the final of the 2017 Polo World Championship. Although given the Polo World Championship's rules are specifically written so as to prevent Argentina from being able to field more than one of their roughly 20 best players, it's debatable whether that can truly be called a 'major' event. For what it's worth, the 1992 tournament was also Argentina v Chile, and the 1995, 1998 and 2011 finals were all Argentina v Brazil (which has been the final fixture in ten Copas América).

                              Argentine tennis players: pretty easy to check as not many have reached singles finals (although given the strictly part-time nature of my tennis 'expertise', there's a good chance I've forgotten one or two). Guillermo Vilas won four, against John Marks of Australia (1978 Aussie Open – bringing the 1994 women's hockey World Cup into the equation), John Sadri of the USA (1979 Aussie Open), Brian Gottfried of the USA (1977 French Open) and Jimmy Connors of the USA (1977 US Open). Juan Martín Del Potro beat a Swiss (Federer in the 2009 US Open) and lost the same tournament this year to a Serb (Djokovic). Gabriela Sabatini gives us three Argentina v (West) Germany finals courtesy of her 1988 US Open and 1991 Wimbledon defeats to, and 1990 US Open win over, Steffi Graf, meaning those two were involved in as many Argentina v (West) Germany finals as their nations' men's football teams have been (and with the same strike rates, to date).

                              Uruguay

                              I'm guessing Switzerland in the 1924 Olympics and Argentina in the 1928 Olympics and 1930 World Cup are the only countries Uruguay have ever met in a major world final of any sport; if we don't count 1950 as a final (and we shouldn't, because it wasn't), then we still can count the five Copas América in which Uruguay and Brazil have met in the final. Also in the Copa América, they've played Peru once, Paraguay once and Chile twice. Can't see much point in bolding those ones, though.

                              A bit of speculation on other possibles

                              In the women's Olympic Football Tournament, the 2000 final between Norway and the USA, and the 2016 final between Germany and Sweden both feel like ones that must have been replicated in other sports (handball or something, perhaps, for Germany v Sweden?). And the 2012 final, USA v Japan, was repeated in the most recent women's US Open tennis final. (Above, I've ignored Argentina's post-1928 Olympic men's final opponents because in the men's game it ceased to be a major final once the World Cup started, in my opinion.)
                              Last edited by Sam; 17-09-2018, 05:58.

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                                #16
                                Hungary lost to Germany in the final of the (men's) Olympic Water Polo in 1928, and then lost to W Germany in the WC Final in 1954. (To balance things slightly Hungary won the water polo gold medals in 32 and 36, with Germany finishing 2nd in both tournaments, though this was through a round robin system so there was no final per se)

                                Hungary lost to Yugoslavia in the finals of the world men's handball championship in 1986, but beat them in the women's world handball championships in 1965. Hungary also pipped Yugoslavia to gold (again by round robin) in the men's olympic water polo in 52, 56, and 64

                                In 1957, Hungary were beaten by Czechoslovakia in the finals of the women's world handball championship, but they beat Czechoslovakia in the 1964 Olympic football final

                                Hungary lost in the World Cup final to Italy in 1938, and beat them in the World men's water polo final in 2003. (There are a ton of round robin gold silver results in the water polo too)
                                Last edited by ad hoc; 17-09-2018, 06:43.

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  Given that Germany, Australia, the Netherlands and Great Britain are all very competitive in track cycling, I would expect that World and/or Olympic Team Pursuit/Team Sprint finals will have matched them up within the last quarter century or so.

                                  Just picking one at random, the 2010 World finals in both men's and women's Team Pursuit were "Ashes" matchups.

                                  Somewhat similarly, the medalists in the Men's Eight (rowing) at Rio were GB, Germany and the Netherlands.
                                  This gets us to the GB or nations teams thingy. In cycling, the nations compete separately in the Commonwealth games but otherwise it's GB.

                                  There used to be GB in the Rugby League world cup, and they had finals against Australia and France. And as WFD notes, the England team has also played Australia in RLWC finals
                                  Last edited by Kevin S; 17-09-2018, 08:15.

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