La Vecchia Signora compra un vecchio gioiello: Calcio Italiano 2018-19

[ursus arctos]

Quite

It's a complete mess even by Italian standards.

A couple of clubs are supposed to be travelling the length of the country for matches at the weekend, and they are still unclear as whether there is a need to do so.

[ursus arctos]

And the administrative court has now reversed itself, thus removing the ban on this week's matches being played (though this saga is far from over).

[Kevin S]

Atalanta's coach Gasperini has been given a one match touchline ban for blasphemy.

Douglas Costa's ban is four matches.

[ursus arctos]

On video tape evidence, no less.

[ad hoc]

What did Gasperini say/do? I presume it was somehow more blasphemous than just screaming "madonna" in a frustrated voice

[Ray de Galles]

Apparently he said “Porca Madonna, Vaffanculo, Dio Cane".

It's quite offensive to see someone banned from football for "blasphemy", just how bad is that outburst in Italy (I recognise it all from repeated use in 'A Season With Verona')? What might an equivalent be in an English-speaking country, in terms of being enough to get you banned, I wonder.

[ad hoc]

That all sounds like the kinds of thing that you hear all the time in Italy. I can only imagine that pretty much everyone could be banned for blasphemy if that counts.

[ursus arctos]

There is no equivalent, because blasphemy isn't still a crime that is prosecuted in most English-speaking countries (maybe one of the Irish posters can explain how it might work there).

And yes, a large majority of the Italian population is theoretically subject to prosecution for blasphemy.

[Ray de Galles]

I was wondering if a British/American manager was caught on camera shouting "You fucking cunt!" or similar they'd get a ban, rather than blasphemy per se.

I'm full of questions about this now ;

- Has anyone ever tried to defend themselves from a blasphemy charge (particularly in something like football where it is particularly irrelevant) by pointing out God doesn't exist?

- Would a foreign manager/player be at risk of the charge in practice?

[ursus arctos]

I can't recall an instance of a US manager being thrown out of a game for cursing, let alone being suspended.

Here's a precis of Italian blasphemy law. The defence you suggest could be well be charged as a separate violation of the either Article 724 or Article 404.

In Italy, under the article 724 of the Penal Code, blasphemy in public is considered as an "administrative offense" and punished with a fine ranging from 51 to 309 €. First introduced in 1930 under Mussolini, blasphemy was decriminalized as per art.57, d.lgs. n.507 of 30 December 1999. As per Corte Costituzionale sentence n.440 of 18 October 1995, the law punishes only blasphemy against the "Deity".
Article 404 of the Penal Code also punishes public offenses to religion, and has been invoked against artists using religious imagery in satirical art.

I haven't yet been able to find if there is a specific rule against blasphemy in Serie A, but the Penal Code applies to everyone in the country, no matter what their nationality (or religion).

What I have found is that this is actually the second such charge this season. In August, Udinese midfielder Rolando Mandragonagot a one game ban (also on video evidence), and last season Cagliari midfielder Cigarini got a two game ban (though part of that appears to have been for two yellow card). Roma's assistant manager was banned in 2016, as were several managers in Serie B.

[Ray de Galles]

I'm going to proffer a wild and previously unheard of theory here...Italy is a bit bonkers.

[ursus arctos]

I found the provision.

There is an express one game ban for blasphemy during a match.

3.bis of Article 19 (in Italian, of course)).

[Kevin S]

Straight back to winning ways tonight, now with 12 scored and 8 conceded in 5 games. Looks like De Zerbi's swashbuckling tactics, and the transfers, are bearing fruit so far.

[Ek weet nie]

No one has been prosecuted for blasphemy here since 1855. The modern law here is really only because blasphemy is explicitly mentioned in the constitution and would require a referendum to remove it completely. The blasphemy law now seems to be centered on causing significant offense to adherents if any religion. In reality, it’s more likely you would be charged for a hate crime if you warranted it and not be charged for something that didn’t reach that level.

Still, I would much prefer a referendum to get rid of it from the constitution.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

The structure of the law is such as to render it unenforceable. If we have to have a stupid blasphemy law, then it will be stupid. I don't know why they bothered, because we seemed to be doing fine ignoring that provision in the constitution.

[danielmak]

Juve or Milan will buy any players making a difference for Sassuolo. The players will barely play and then move to Genoa, Samp, or Torino. Those players that aren't purchased by Juve or Milan will be purchased by Roma. Those players will play for a little but not much, loaned out, eventually sold to Samp and will score big goals against Roma that will keep Roma out of the hunt for 2nd place.

I have posted this before but Serie A seems so unique in that almost every decent player seems to play for every bigger team. The recycling of players in Serie A is crazy.

[Kevin S]

Yes, and England is the other extreme, where you do everything in your power to ensure the best players that you have to sell go to a foreign team instead of a divisional rival.

Highlights from last night:
https://youtu.be/F43R3oxygec

[Gerontophile]

Napoli's Insigne has just scored a biffer at Torino. 0-1 after 6.

Oh, and if this continues, it will not end well for Torino.

[danielmak]

Roma lose again. Richard Whittle claimed that there were reports of unrest in the dressing room. Noting new in the internal city, where Spaletti seems to be the only coach who can last for more than 2 seasons.

[ursus arctos]

They looked awful today.

Bologna are not a good team.

With the stadium still stalled, I fear that the entire “project” may be on life support.

[danielmak]

They looked awful today.

Bologna are not a good team.

With the stadium still stalled, I fear that the entire “project” may be on life support.

I don't know if any of the folks on this thread listen to On the Continent (the podcast started by the Ramble crew but focused on European football) but James Horncastle is one of the regular expert guests. He said that he understood why Roma sold Nangolin and Strootman given the age of both and given the offers, but he also felt that they were giving up a lot of talent and a lot of leadership on the pitch. I agree with both accounts. This is a side that really doesn't seem to have any direction. Of course, I have seen this before, with bad results followed by record-setting wins in a row, followed by mixed results but I have a hard time identifying impact players who can get that series of wins started.

[ursus arctos]

I do, and agree. It might be different if DiFrancesco was a stronger personality, but Roma might be the most difficult job in Europe.

[CY_Boaby]

Is there a European football podcast that doesn't have James Horncastle on it?

Roma would have been mad to have turned down the Inter money for Nainggolan; he's 30, unfit and doesn't look after himself - loves a ciggie and a nightclub. I can't see him strutting his stuff around the Meazza in two years time and Roma had the best of him. If Roma and Inter are going to struggle this term then it gives a great chance for Fiorentina and Lazio to get into the Champions League.

[Kevin S]

I do, and agree. It might be different if DiFrancesco was a stronger personality, but Roma might be the most difficult job in Europe.

Milan: Hold my Menabrea.

[ursus arctos]

Nah, Milanisti have a much more accurate view of their current position in the football universe.

CY, I share your view on the Champions League, but note that it has long been a poisoned chalice for my Viola. I’d rather win the Coppa Italia.