Dead Dogs

[WOM]

That's sort of what I'm saying, I guess. When a resource dries up, people come to terms and move on. When a factory closes, they seem to hunker down and think "they'll be back...".

Reading Hillbilly Elegy right now, and it's very interesting on this sort of thing.

[Amor de Cosmos]

I think that what they are looking for are large subsidies, rather than any kind of state ownership.

If that's the way it goes I'd rather the government subsidise the passengers rather than the company. Based on precedent however they're unlikely to do that.

[ursus arctos]

Yes and yes.

University towns aren't really "small towns" in my book.

They are, however, increasingly in demand from retirees down here, as they have the important services that Amor notes.

[Amor de Cosmos]

That's sort of what I'm saying, I guess. When a resource dries up, people come to terms and move on. When a factory closes, they seem to hunker down and think "they'll be back...".

Reading Hillbilly Elegy right now, and it's very interesting on this sort of thing.

Yeah it is kinda odd. Like the Alberta oilsands employing a disproportionately large numbers of Newfoundlanders. Mainly, I think, because of connections forged back on the rock.

[WOM]

Newfoundlanders baffle me. They'll leave, make a small fortune, grouse about it the whole time, and then move back to the Rock without a doubt about it.

[Amor de Cosmos]

I'd be happy in a town that has decent grocery stores, a movie theatre, some kind of live theatre or concerts, and reasonably priced houses.

Well so would I, but this ex-urb of 22,000 has none of those except for grocery stores. And there are no small towns in the province with established University cultures to provide them.

There are are a few eccentric burgs that may have some of them I guess. Ganges on Salt Spring Island (10,000 pop) has a movie theatre in a converted church (which I almost bought thirty years ago) but they're few and far between.

[ursus arctos]

They've been doing that for centuries.

It's only the resource that changes.

[WOM]

Some good docs on the NFB site around Mohawks from Quebec walking the high steel in NYC in the '60s / '70s. Fascinating stuff. Similar in many ways to Newfoundlanders coming and going as the opportunities move around.

[WOM]

I'd be happy in a town that has decent grocery stores, a movie theatre, some kind of live theatre or concerts, and reasonably priced houses.

Well so would I, but this ex-urb of 22,000 has none of those except for grocery stores. And there are no small towns in the province with established University cultures to provide them.

There are are a few eccentric burgs that may have some of them I guess. Ganges on Salt Spring Island (10,000 pop) has a movie theatre in a converted church (which I almost bought thirty years ago) but they're few and far between.

They seem like the kind of places that exist in Vermont or New Mexico, but not in Ontario. I'd love to find an artsy, affordable small town with liberal-minded people. But they seem to be as rare as hen's teeth.

[San Bernardhinault]

Lawrence, KS, and Fayetteville, AR, are two of my favourites of this kind of town. But that might just be because of their contrast with the crappiness that surrounds them.

Broadly, I'm with WOM on letting unloved towns just wither and die. I don't see a particular reason to try and "save" a town where there are no jobs, or industry, and there's no inherent underlying reason for it to exist. But letting something die off is different from removing its infrastructure and connections to the outside world, and basically strangling it. I increasingly think that building and maintaining shit hot infrastructure is the key to economic and social sustainability, and that's probably the one thing governments should really be focusing on, and if the private sector fails - as it's doing here - the public sector should step in and do twice as much.

[ursus arctos]

Oxford, Mississippi is another one.

[Hot Pepsi]

I'd be happy in a town that has decent grocery stores, a movie theatre, some kind of live theatre or concerts, and reasonably priced houses. University towns are pretty good for that: Kingston, Peterborough, London, etc. State College is that kind of place, in my limited experience. I wouldn't mind living in a town where they don't charge you to park, but that also has buses. And yeah, fewer people with the usual list of intolerances and whatnot. Can't you be a proud redneck and not a racist, too?

I don’t know anywhere that doesn’t charge for parking and has buses unless it’s just all strip malls, and that would be unpleasant. Any downtownish area busy enough to have regular bus service is going to charge for parking, at least in its busy season, whenever that is. There are rural areas only served by paratransit, of course.

Indeed, in some tourist-oriented towns - Rehoboth Beach for example - parking fees make up a massive chunk of the municipal budget.



One thing that is a bummer about State College is we no longer have any first-run movie theaters downtown. When I was a kid, all of them were downtown and I went to them a lot, but since the dawn of the stadium-seating multiplex, those gradually disappeared and so we just have two multiplexes that are each several miles from downtown. There used to be some cool old theaters in the surrounding small towns, but all of those are gone too now, I think, either because of economics or fire or both.

I suspect that’s typical. The classic old one or two screen theater with a red curtain and all that just isn’t economically viable in most towns.

[ursus arctos]

Saratoga Springs has tons of free parking and vibrant downtown. Street parking is also free in most all residential areas of New York City. I think it is more common in the Northeast than elsewhere.

Many places that have paid parking also have some kind of deal (free or very reduced) for residents.

[Hot Pepsi]

I'd be happy in a town that has decent grocery stores, a movie theatre, some kind of live theatre or concerts, and reasonably priced houses.

Well so would I, but this ex-urb of 22,000 has none of those except for grocery stores. And there are no small towns in the province with established University cultures to provide them.

There are are a few eccentric burgs that may have some of them I guess. Ganges on Salt Spring Island (10,000 pop) has a movie theatre in a converted church (which I almost bought thirty years ago) but they're few and far between.

BC must have some decent “ski towns” or seaside towns reliant on tourism but those probably don’t offer reasonably priced real estate.

[Hot Pepsi]

Saratoga Springs has tons of free parking and vibrant downtown. Street parking is also free in most all residential areas of New York City. I think it is more common in the Northeast than elsewhere.

Many places that have paid parking also have some kind of deal (free or very reduced) for residents.

Really? They’re leaving a lot of money on the table.

Yeah. Resident parking is often free. Another way to do it is to make it free but don’t provide many public parking spots. Marblehead was/is like that.

[Amor de Cosmos]

BC must have some decent “ski towns” or seaside towns reliant on tourism but those probably don’t offer reasonably priced real estate.

Whistler "Village" is the nearest ski town to Vancouver. It's hideously expensive and... well... just plain hideous really. The West coast of Vancouver Island is still doable. It's surf city BC, but really just two smallish towns Tofino, spectacular beaches — now getting pricey — and Uclulet, smaller, less picturesque, but also less pricey. Both are a good four five hour drive from anywhere else and across a mountain range that can be undriveable in Winter. BC's almost the size of Europe of course, and once you get more than a day's drive away from the Lower Mainland/Vancouver Island then everything changes, especially the price of real estate.


Article by a young Cree woman on the importance of rural bus service. On the plus side it seems as though the Province has begun a Hwy 16 bus service, which I didn't know but is excellent news.

[Hot Pepsi]

In the US, the health infrastructure usually grows along with the retiree population - that's true where I live and where my parents live - but its not very efficient and it might not work in the Canadian system, especially in places that are extremely remote.

Vancouver Island sounds great, but as you say, a bit remote. That might be a problem for people who need a lot of healthcare and something I should think about when fantasizing my escape. Does the west coast of VI have a ferry that comes around to Victoria or does one just have to brave the drive overland?

Nova Scotia looks a bit more attractive to me. I've never been there, but I'm thinking maybe they'd be glad to have me. Vermont is paying home workers, like me, to move there. AG suggested on Twitter that the maritimes might do that too. And it might be cheaper than Vermont.

[Amor de Cosmos]

There's no ferry service to the West coast of VI. And just one highway out, as mentioned above. Uclulet and Tofino are connected by an excellent 30 mile stretch of road.

In the US, the health infrastructure usually grows along with the retiree population - that's true where I live and where my parents live - but its not very efficient and it might not work in the Canadian system, especially in places that are extremely remote.

BC is served by several health districts which are financed according to size/need. Many communities, especially in the North and Interior, are several hours drive from the nearest hospital. Air ambulances, are used in emergencies, but you'd need to get to a medical facility of some kind first. The last provincial government fetishised maintaining a balance budget by closing hospitals (and schools) for sixteen years. As you'd expect the worst hit were the smallest and most remote. With luck that's begun to change, but it'll take some time to rectify.

The maritimes would be a good move financially without a doubt.

[Hot Pepsi]

What's the downside of the maritimes (other than the lack of economic activity)? Everyone who visits seems to love them, especially Nova Scotia. I suppose the winters are brutal, but that's true of Montreal and Toronto too, to some extent, and real estate isn't cheap there.

[ursus arctos]

I think you've identified the two big ones, though Halifax seems to be increasingly vibrant.

[WOM]

I think the words 'cold' and 'damp' come to mind for most folks. Everyone seems to love it out there, though. If they don't leave for economic reasons, they don't leave.

L's family are all from New Brunswick, and they only left for jobs. But the pull back there is strong. Oddly so.

[Amor de Cosmos]

My sister, who moved to Canada a couple of years after me, would never live anywhere else. She spent about twenty years in Newfoundland, then moved to Ontario, which she never really cottoned to. About ten years ago, after meeting her second husband, who was about to retire to Arizona they moved to PEI. They're as happy as clams* (or maybe lobsters.)

* BTW, how can you tell whether a clam is happy? Seems an odd analogy.

[WOM]

The Maritimes might be nice if you had somewhere warm and south you could visit at the drop of a hat.
That does extend to most of the rest of Canada, too. Except Amor's small pocket of the country....

[linus]

* BTW, how can you tell whether a clam is happy? Seems an odd analogy.

From the expression on the clam's face.

The climate in the southern Maritimes is a bit better than in Montreal or Vermont, compared to these places, it's more oceanic and less continental, with less frigid winters and cooler summers. They do get massive snowfalls and storms but overall I don't think it's all that bad, at least not from where I stand.

[Amor de Cosmos]

And the fogs. Don't forget the fogs.