Originally posted by G-Man
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You, me and PPV: CRO-ENG
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I'm somewhat intrigued by the notion that no one in Croatia, neither in conversations in bars or pundits on TV ever speculated about the possibility of being in the final. That no one in the whole country said, after France beat Belgium, "My god if we reach the final, how the hell will we stop Mbappe?" or that no one there ever commented that being on this side of the draw was pretty lucky (or that facing England in the semi final was better than facing either Belgium or France).
I'm actually genuinely happy for PPV but part of me wants to shake him and tell him to enjoy it rather than trying to find every negative thing he can about the diverse English media
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Originally posted by tuckwat View PostEngland fucked it up. All this talk about a bright future from the English pundits is bollocks. Missed opportunity. Last time England got to a World Cup Semi-Final they did not even qualify for the following World Cup.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View PostIf Denmark is a neighbouring country then that leaves a lot of possibilities of unexpected winners. Denmark again, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, NI, Faroes, Iceland, Luxembourg(?), Germany (ho ho).Last edited by Ray de Galles; 12-07-2018, 07:46.
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Originally posted by SouthdownRebel View PostI agree with PPV (and Modric) about the punditry. Rio Ferdinand is part of that so-called "golden generation" that completely fell on its arse in international football, and it's pretty apparent that he has learned nothing from the experience. ITV's pundits were hugely patronising towards Croatia - I didn't see the pre-game chat, but at half time the talk was of how England could just turn it on in the second half and win 3-0. It was really disrespectful. Roy Keane rightly laid into them afterwards, as he had done previously, for talking as though England were already in the final. The three of them laughed at him, again.
Having said that, they were still all pissing me off, so I went to do the washing up after a couple of minutes and may have missed the worst of it.
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Originally posted by nmrfox View PostDespite his great interviews and waistcoat, Southgate still doesn't strike me as a particularly astute manager, a bit like Martinez. Both have decent teams to field but the art of adjustment to changes in the opposition seems lost to them
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Originally posted by ad hoc View PostI can guess who you meant, but that was why I suggested that if Denmark is one of England's neighbours there are lots of possibilities.
Though Scotland winning it would be cool too.
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Originally posted by hobbes View PostModric is a hell of a player, but a fairly poor winner, eh?
The English media are far from perfect, but other countries in Europe really struggle with the English culture of self-deprication, it's coming home being totally centered on decades of hope and failure, opposed to a belief that England deserve victory.
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The board was glitching earlier and my post got lost.
It was in relation to PPV's comment about Lineker et al looking ahead to the France game. I pointed out the commentators were much worse at looking ahead to a game with France at Euro 2016.
Must be a thing about impending games with France.
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Suggesting a team may be tired after two consecutive extra-time and penalties games doesn't seem particularly hubristic or patronising, or whatever Modric felt it was.
In fact, isn't it the opposite of that? Isn't there a suggestion that England might have needed a helping hand to get through, and Croatia's potential fatigue after two tough games could have been that?
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If anything, the suggestion was, hey Croatia have fallen off since the group stage and failed to put away two technically inferior teams- let's hope they struggle against another one!
Not that there weren't a few people getting carried away. I guess if Dalic used a few judiciously selected examples of english hubris to get his players going, it worked.
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Originally posted by ad hoc View PostI'm actually genuinely happy for PPV but part of me wants to shake him and tell him to enjoy it rather than trying to find every negative thing he can about the diverse English media
I don't give a shit about how the English media or pundits do their thing. I really don't. But for the sake of the good people here on OTF and other I know outside of it who want to see England win it some day, that kind of stuff must stop. It isn't helpful at all and I truly believe it has a a very negative effect on players, manager etc. It sets a tone and it sets a pressure which works against the team.
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Originally posted by nmrfox View PostDespite his great interviews and waistcoat, Southgate still doesn't strike me as a particularly astute manager, a bit like Martinez. Both have decent teams to field but the art of adjustment to changes in the opposition seems lost to them.
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Lest we imagine that hubris and egotism is exclusively a preserve of the English
https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1017334900884680704
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Originally posted by Walt Flanagans Dog View PostJust home and no complaints from me, England were outplayed and out-thought from just before half time onwards (barring a decent spell in the first half of extra time, while Croatia were regrouping).
No doubt the revisionism will start soon and the Satchometer will decree that England were actually only the 17th best team in the tournament but overall Southgate made the most of what he had, it's not his fault English football produces Hendersons and Diers and not Modrics, and he took them further than we expected.
I've had an absolute blast, it's all been a bonus - I'll be 54 the next time I get to watch World Cup games in the sunshine, wearing shorts and having a laugh with my mates, so I've made the most of it. I'm about 10% as gutted as I was in 1990, unexpectedly, but I'm older and I've got plenty more in my life. For the next three days I'll be getting pissed in a field with my son, watching an array of metal, punk and indie bands, and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
I've not looked at the news for the reaction but can report from Carlisle that it was all quite good natured afterwards, disappointment and pride rather than anger and aggression.
Edit - and congrats PPV, I can get my Hrvatska sweatshirt out again now.
I would also not agree with any revisionism. This was the most cohesive and well coached England side since Euro 96, despite having far less talent and experience than the Beckham Scholes Owen sides.
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