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    #51
    The folk on here worrying ... it's an attempt to jinx them, right? You can't seriously think England have a chance of winning it? Reaching the semis, granted, seems a lot closer now than anyone thought it would be pre-tournament, but it still seems to me as if England v Sweden is going to be a contest to see who gets to be minced by Croatia/cheated by a generous referee against Russia. I don't think you've anything to worry about.

    On Dele Alli, I'm with Simon G. I strongly dislike him for the horror tackles and the general air of twattiness, but as far as where he comes from is concerned, I tend to want him to not do well (or for England, to hope that the team do well while he is recognised as having been a hindrance to them) because it'll reflect well on that club, rather than holding the club as another black mark against him personally. Does that make sense?

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      #52
      If the semi-final should be Russia vs England, I'll have few qualms about "supporting Putin's Boys", because the British government, put in power repeatedly by English voters, is not much better than Russia's. If Russia's team is reduced to Putin, then there's no way one can in good conscience support "Theresa May's Brexit Boys".

      And this England team being "likable" went out of the window against Colombia.

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        #53
        Originally posted by Sam View Post
        The folk on here worrying ... it's an attempt to jinx them, right? You can't seriously think England have a chance of winning it? Reaching the semis, granted, seems a lot closer now than anyone thought it would be pre-tournament, but it still seems to me as if England v Sweden is going to be a contest to see who gets to be minced by Croatia/cheated by a generous referee against Russia. I don't think you've anything to worry about.

        On Dele Alli, I'm with Simon G. I strongly dislike him for the horror tackles and the general air of twattiness, but as far as where he comes from is concerned, I tend to want him to not do well (or for England, to hope that the team do well while he is recognised as having been a hindrance to them) because it'll reflect well on that club, rather than holding the club as another black mark against him personally. Does that make sense?
        This is pretty much my view.

        (I’ll add that while he’s clearly very talented, I’d not pick him because he’s out of form, carrying an injury and one of the big exceptions to the England playing better without players who think they are ‘stars’.)

        But also @G-man, while I think I’ve made my feelings on May and the Tories pretty clear, I’m still interested in the reasoning that says May = Putin.

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          #54
          I don't think it involves any reasoning at all. I don't think even G-man believes it.

          Of course May would try and piggy-back on England success, and be roundly mocked for doing it. Mock Putin doing it and you might not be doing anything else, ever.

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            #55
            Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
            But also @G-man, while I think I’ve made my feelings on May and the Tories pretty clear, I’m still interested in the reasoning that says May = Putin.
            I'm also interested in the reasoning that says England = May's Brexit Boys. Edit sorry no I'm not, I've read it properly now.

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              #56
              Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
              No.

              Looking at that montage, I'm torn between mirth and concern as to what a police raid might find in Ray's basement.

              And while the Franchise are clearly an abomination and can't ever be condoned, I'm uncomfortable with directing that kind of hatred at a child.
              I think Dele Alli will visit Ray's house one day and it will be like the episode where Alan Patridge visits a fan.

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                #57
                Google really is still beyond some people, isn’t it? Bless the poor dim lambs.

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                  #58
                  I think Russia would use getting to the final to excuse human rights abuses that exceed the ones being done by the British, which is not to deny that the latter are also unacceptable.

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                    #59
                    Originally posted by Бога Нет View Post

                    Never forgive, never forget.
                    Because Wimbledon were always the cuddly club.

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                      #60
                      Originally posted by tee rex View Post
                      I don't think it involves any reasoning at all. I don't think even G-man believes it.

                      Of course May would try and piggy-back on England success, and be roundly mocked for doing it. Mock Putin doing it and you might not be doing anything else, ever.
                      Both are profoundly corrupt regimes that foster war by their foreign policy and sale of weapons. Putin kills journalists and assorted opponents, and he is no Democrat. May doesn't kill people -- directly. But she and her gang are dismantling the NHS with no concern for the welfare of people, and... oh, I don't have to persuade anyone here what a thoroughly monstrous government Britain has. The point is that if we are going to hate teams because of their despicable governments, as has been suggested should be the case with Russia, then Tory-voting England occupies no higher moral ground.

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                        #61
                        Originally posted by Chemin-de-fairy View Post
                        Because Wimbledon were always the cuddly club.
                        Because what fucking clue do you ever have about anything?

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                          #62
                          Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                          Both are profoundly corrupt regimes that foster war by their foreign policy and sale of weapons. Putin kills journalists and assorted opponents, and he is no Democrat. May doesn't kill people -- directly. But she and her gang are dismantling the NHS with no concern for the welfare of people, and... oh, I don't have to persuade anyone here what a thoroughly monstrous government Britain has. The point is that if we are going to hate teams because of their despicable governments, as has been suggested should be the case with Russia, then Tory-voting England occupies no higher moral ground.
                          No, the point is not "Which regime is worse?", but "What effect on those regimes do World Cup results have?".

                          In England's case, all Corbyn has to do is say "We want an election, will the Tories join us and make it happen?". If you can work out May's answer to that (and it's pretty easy) then you'll know how much she has to gain politically from England's success. Nothing. It's 'as you were'.

                          Whereas Putin's victory would be a catastrophe.

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                            #63
                            How so? You think Putin's shitbaggery will get any worse because Russia won the World Cup? Putin doesn't need that feather in the cap. If he has it, nice. If not, it makes no difference.

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                              #64
                              Is this the ARB thread now?

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by G-Man View Post
                                Both are profoundly corrupt regimes that foster war by their foreign policy and sale of weapons. Putin kills journalists and assorted opponents, and he is no Democrat. May doesn't kill people -- directly. But she and her gang are dismantling the NHS with no concern for the welfare of people, and... oh, I don't have to persuade anyone here what a thoroughly monstrous government Britain has. The point is that if we are going to hate teams because of their despicable governments, as has been suggested should be the case with Russia, then Tory-voting England occupies no higher moral ground.
                                Well, I don't think there's anyone on OTF who doesn't understand the horrible nature of Tory-voting England or the Welsh/Scottish Tory, DUP-supported UK government. Or Franchise FC or Delle Alli in his adult incarnation for that matter.

                                But to hold your view on May/Putin you'd have to believe there's no significant difference in degree. And you'd have to ignore the untrammelled power and overwhelming level of support Putin's enjoyed for 18 years to produce the current state of the Russian health service. That's without bothering with his policy in Chechnya, Ukraine, the baltic states, Syria, the internet, etc. Or the fact that over the 2013-2017 period, Russia exported 4x as many arms as the UK. (Amazing what you can find with Google, eh?!) And you'd have to believe that you'd be better off in Russia as a journalist, a dissident, LGBT person or in police custody. I don't, TBH.

                                (Nor have you or anyone else convincingly shown that Tory shitbaggery would be any worse in the vanishingly unlikely event of England winning a football pot, but that one's been done to death on another thread.)

                                It would probably be an interesting discussion to have with you, and I'm sure I'd learn a lot, but as any kind of disagreement is currently leading Ray to post like an aggressive, supercilious cunt, I think I'll leave this thread for the AEB.

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                                  #66
                                  Wise move Chris. Some normally smart people on here have very closed minds when it comes to a particular national team and respond in a ridiculous manner to it. It's just not worth it.

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                                    #67
                                    Point of order, I’ve responded in a ridiculous manner about Franchise not England - however much you’ve continued your constant crusade to stir shit about and with people who, quite naturally, do not want England to do well.

                                    I don’t think I’ve been an “aggressive, supercilious cunt” to ChrisJ. I may have been to other people but they were being obtuse, one-note, boorish trolls.

                                    Anyway, I’m ABE, we had a vicious schism with the AEB.
                                    Last edited by Ray de Galles; 05-07-2018, 21:52.

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                                      #68
                                      I've no problem with any person who wants to see England fail, as you say it's typical football rivalry. Even English people are perfectly entitled to want to see them fail. What I push back against is the assumptions that everyone who supports them are all knuckle-dragging racists and morons.


                                      The ridiculous responses refers to the absolute guff in the other thread suggesting that any success for England will lead to the government closing down parliament and an EDL inspired fascist uprising.

                                      Finally it was Chris who said you were being an aggressive supercilious cunt, but I think he was referring to your response to Gero, and I think he has a point.

                                      As for franchise, fuck franchise and anyone who follows them, they deserve nothing but misery.

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                                        #69
                                        OK, well your first two paragraphs don’t apply to me as they don’t bear any relation to anything I’ve ever written.

                                        I’m well aware it was ChrisJ who made the comment I quoted. If it’s about my response to Gerontophile then I’m sticking with it for the reasons given in my previous post.

                                        We seem to be largely in agreement on your final paragraph, though I still sense some worrying equivocation in your stance.

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                                          #70
                                          I think Gero had a point though. Wimbledon were perceived in the 80s as dirty antifootballers. Public sentiment may have changed when the club was killed off, but I remember the long ball, play the man stuff. And the journey back is inspiring, particularly as they will be playing above the Franchise this season.

                                          But other clubs have been the victim of shithouse chairmen, had grounds sold out from under them, been merged with little thought for the fans, moved towns or whatever. Are Wimbledon the special case whose cause we all must fight forever? Are we ever allowed to move on?

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                                            #71
                                            I believe the clue is in the phrase "Never Forgive, Never Forget"

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                                              #72
                                              Or someone else will do the same crime to another club.

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                                                #73
                                                Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
                                                Well, I don't think there's anyone on OTF who doesn't understand the horrible nature of Tory-voting England
                                                I don't.

                                                Look, to not want Saudi Arabia winning a single game, that was easy. They're beheading people in the country. Have mass executions and a few years ago a woman was sentenced to death for fucking witchcraft, because she was in possession of some bloody talisman. And then there's all the rest with Yemen, cunts being sneaky funding terrorism, uncivil no rights, you can make a long list.

                                                But this shit people wanting out of EU, it's nothing. The worst part about it all is that most people now on the barricades against people who want out of Brussels bureaucracy, they were on the barricades against Brussels bureaucracy when the questions was should UK enter EU at all. Seriously, what a bunch of hipocrita. First you * shout your mouth off you absolutely don't want in, then you shout your mouth off everybody else is racist who wants out. It's a joke.

                                                Edit: * not you per se
                                                Last edited by Pietro Paolo Virdis; 06-07-2018, 08:11.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Brexit is the least of Tory crimes, PPV.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Politics is organized crime. It will never enter my brain how well educated, intelligent and good people can fall for it and pick a side there.

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