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    Does she have a problem with lefties? She kept feeding the Kerber forehand.

    But mainly she overhit everything, which is always a sign that she's just not on her game that day.

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      Women's doubles has been put on Court 1 - "not before 6pm"

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        Good decision - the Women's final is done and dusted, Krejickova and Siniakova won (which makes it two-in-a-row as they also won at Roland Garros), the Men's is still going! They are on serve early in a fifth set at the moment...

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          Bryan/Sock won 7-5 in the fifth. Either the roof was closed or this must have finished in near darkness. I wonder how many in the crowd stayed until the end?

          Regarding the Women's Final, I doubt I was alone in this, but I clearly didn’t give Kerber enough credit for her defensive skills. Not only her agility returning and speed and mobility that allowed her to get racquets on Serena’s groundstrokes, but also to both get behind them and control what at times were effectively half-volleys off the baseline, putting them back into with pace and depth, neutralised their effectiveness. That got under Serena’s skin, prompting overhitting.
          One interesting thing about this match was Serena’s grunt. This is often a weathervane of her performance. She regularly starts off matches nearly silent and will remain like that if she doesn’t need to extend herself for the win. However close matches will often see the volume amped up, which I assume is a double-meaning thing; in one way it’s motivating herself and driving herself on to play better, the other is it is sending the same message down the court to her opponent that “I am dialled in here! Be afraid...”
          However when Serena does this it is normally accompanied by an increase in shot pace, but you can’t do that when you have already been going big and missing. Hence for much of the second set Serena actually went quiet, which is generally indicative of her trying to rein herself in and play with control. But that is essentially a confusion for Serena, her best in a tight situation is when she hits out and dominates. If she has to back off, she is in a mess.
          So credit to Angie for all of that, and for staying (mostly) calm herself when presented with the opportunity, executing on the clean winner down the line for the set two break and then getting over the line despite some some nervily slow second serves in that final game. It makes three Slam Finals where Kerber has genuinely gone toe-to-toe with Williams, over which the German now leads 2-1. There are very, very few players who can say they have a winning h2h against Serena in Slam Finals*, and the only player that is true of who has met Serena in showpieces on multiple occasions.

          * - just two hold winning records in Slam Finals against Serena in fact. Spotters badge for anyone who can name the holder of the 1-0 analysis without looking it up! Declaration: I probably wouldn’t have got this myself, though having looked at the list provoked an “Oh, yeah, of course” reaction.

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            Oh, and I was searching for a comparator for Kerber in the Men's game, and I reckon her (and Muguruza, for that matter) as a Stan Wawrinka* to Serena's Federer/Nadal/Djokovic works. Neither of the Europeans is as good overall as their potential opponent, and both are more inconsistent in making it to the latter stages of tournaments, but like Wawrinka both on their day/fortnight are good enough to pull out a Semi or Final performance that overcomes the difference and denies the better player.

            * - in terms of mentality and success rate rather than playing style, seeing as Kerber and Wawrinka's patterns of play could barely be more different.

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              Men’s Final

              Kevin Anderson RSA [8] vs Novak Djokovic Srb [12]
              I’ll join with every second preview of this final by starting with “We need to talk about Kevin”
              Exactly what state is Anderson going to be in for this match after playing effectively 8 sets and looking out on his feet on Friday, after having also played effectively six sets in the Quarter against Federer on Wednesday which likely nearly as tiring, as the rallies and movement was more demanding than the biff-bash-rally over stuff of the Semi? Reading between the lines of his reported comments on Saturday which mostly focused on introducing fifth set tie-breaks, I reckon he is in a pretty bad way. Which bodes ill for this match.
              If Anderson does come out hobbling and it’s an effective walkover, that may be the greatest argument for the change, especially after last year’s rather one-sided, injury-affected affair (Cilic was worn down, despite only playing to 6-1 in the fifth of his QF and four sets in the SF). Unless, of course, we get an even more persuasive argument if he players on both sides of the net are struggling as Djokovic, having played the second longest Wimbledon Semi of all-time and only having 22 hours to recover, is also partially broken.
              However, I doubt that will be the case. The mid-match split will help Djokovic, as he has effectively played two best-of-three matches in the last two days. Yes, two incredibly high intensity, Big Four level best-of-threes, each lasting the bulk of three hours. That is something he could have faced at a Masters Series event, though it’s unlikely that, having beaten Murray and Nadal back-to-back he would be asked to play again as those would likely have been a Semi and Final.
              Also key is that Djokovic should have come into the Nadal match relatively fresh, with ‘just’ four setters against Edmund and Nishikori prior to the Semi, which, whilst neither an easy match were both done in under three hours. Anderson also had a deeply intense four-setter of his own in R4 against Monfils prior to his two epics. In fact the South African’s run to the Final can be considered to equal o surpass Nishikori’s incredibly performance at the 2014 US Open when he beat Djokovic on the back of five-set wins against Raonic and Wawrinka. But even Nishikori got tired at the end of that, and he is a naturally sprightlier player than Anderson whose height and therefore weight makes getting around the court more draining.
              So that is fitness, and it’s hard to see that not being decisive. However, even if it isn’t most other aspects cleave Djokovic’s way. He has a vast gulf in terms of experience, with 12 Slam titles and 9 other finals to Anderson’s one runner-up finish. Djokovic also leads the h2h 5-1, with Anderson’s sole win coming way back in 2008 (their first meeting). However Anderson also trailed Federer 0-4 and Monfils 0-5 and he won both of those. He probably should have also won the last meeting against Nole, which came on these very courts in 2015 – Anderson led Djokovic by two sets on that day but it slipped away from him, and the memory of that is yet another tick in the Serbs favour.
              There are a few mental aspects that buck the trend though. One is that Anderson has both played a Slam Final and won a tournament more recently than Djokovic, having reached the US Open Final last fall and also won a rather more mundane tournament in New York back in Febraury. Djokovic, by contrast, hasn’t played in a Slam Final for nearly two years, ever since surprisingly losing to Wawrinka in the 2016 US Final. That came a few months after he finally broke through with the main career ambition of completing the career Slam by beating Murray in the 2016 French final, something that seemed to leave him devoid of motivation for a long time afterwards.
              That down period plays into the other thing which favours Kevin – the pressure is all on Novak. He is a man who was used to regularly winning Slams but now finds himself not only playing his first for ages, but one where he is a massive favourite. Everyone will expect, he will expect to win. And that isn’t a great place to be in if Anderson does come out fresher than expected. Or even if Kevin looks tired but keeps bashing down the first serve, survives to a set one breaker and then sneaks that. Playing the situation and not the man is known to bite players on the arse.
              However that is really the only aspect that favours Anderson, because game-style makes this match-up look nasty from his perspective, just as the US Open showdown with Nadal was a big problem. Djokovic is just such a good returner and defender that he will ask his tall opponent to play many more difficult shots than he can really cope with. Anderson will lose rallies if he stays back, but will be volleying off his toes if he comes forward. He will be asked again and again to play another ball, another ball. Anderson’s first serve must function at a high level, providing many aces if he is to get through this, and then he has to somehow find the game to break Djokovic, be those full-on breaks or mini-breaks in tie-breakers.
              But we come back to fitness. Djokovic in three against a player who is walking wounded from a very early stage.

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                In the men's doubles, the roof was closed for the fifth set (photo in link). Playing time was 3:39 hours:

                https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/tennis...ite-final-loss

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                  6-2 first set. Going to be over quick.

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                    Noah's ark score coming: 2-2-2. Done before the Football...

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                      Or 2-2-tie break, done at 4:30pm. That is more or less the same thing, right?
                      Anderson was arguably the better player in set three, having about seven break points, five of them set points. However I think Djokovic got his first serve in on all six, and Anderson only really had a chance on the non-set point ones, he was in the rallies, and the one at 5-6 15-40 when he read Djokovic's first serve but put his forehand return in the net. That one will haunt him, I think.

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                        I wouldn't bet against Novak winning the next two Slams as well.

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                          Nor would I (though obviously I'm hoping Murray does instead).
                          Last edited by Evariste Euler Gauss; 15-07-2018, 21:19.

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                            I'd be happy for Murray to just have a deep run in one of them, to ease back into the mix, then win Wimbledon 2019.

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                              Originally posted by Janik View Post
                              It makes three Slam Finals where Kerber has genuinely gone toe-to-toe with Williams, over which the German now leads 2-1. There are very, very few players who can say they have a winning h2h against Serena in Slam Finals, and Kerber is the only player that is true of who has met Serena in showpieces on multiple occasions. Just two hold winning records in Slam Finals against Serena in fact. Spotters badge for anyone who can name the holder of the 1-0 analysis without looking it up! Declaration: I probably wouldn’t have got this myself, though having looked at the list provoked an “Oh, yeah, of course” reaction.
                              For the record, that other player is Sam Stosur.

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                                How many other women have won three or more Slams in the Williams era, or this century?

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                                  Sharapova.

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                                    Does Jennifer Capriati count? She won her three just after the Williams sisters started winning theirs, I think. And wasn't Justine Henin winning hers at that time?

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                                      Henin is younger than either Williams sister. She gained all her Slams (6 or 7 or so) during their era. Or, well, she had her own 2-3 years spell where she eclipsed them and that spell from ~2005-07 should arguably be seen as the Henin era. Clijsters also won three in recent years, didn't she? It was definitely multiple, but I can't remember if it was just two US Opens or three with an Aussie in there as well.

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                                        Ah, Kim Clijsters, yes of course. Do you know I've checked and she reached 8 grand slam finals - in the Williams era - and never met either of them in a final.

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                                          So Wikipedia does have a handy list of these things.

                                          Minumum of three Slam titles since 2000:-
                                          Serena - 22
                                          Venus - 7
                                          Henin - 7
                                          Sharapova - 5
                                          Clijsters - 4 (I undersold her!)
                                          Capriati - 3
                                          Kerber - 3

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                                            And 2005 to the point of Henin's abrupt retirement in 2008 (13 Slams)

                                            Henin - 4 + 3 r-up
                                            Sharapova - 2 + 1 r-up
                                            Serena - 2
                                            Venus - 2
                                            Mauresmo - 2
                                            Cjilsters - 1

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                                              No asterisk next to Sharapova or were her wins pre-drugs?

                                              Venus seems to have either under-performed on other surfaces or just had a game uniquely suited to grass. Edit: OTOH she has been runner up to her sister in all four Slams.

                                              You could argue that Serena was MIA in the Henin era.
                                              Last edited by Satchmo Distel; 20-07-2018, 11:05.

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                                                And that is possibly the biggest mark against her legacy. The time she was truly challenged she didn't face it down but became disengaged instead. Serena did still play 10 of those 13 Slams and won two of them (notably the two that Henin herself missed!). So she was there in body if not in spirit. 2007 was Henin's great year, where she won two of the Slams but also was 63-4 for the season. It was also a season Serena was targeting to return to the top, and one she began by winning the Aussie Open as an unseeded player with little preparation. Henin's run that season included three straight Slam wins over Serena on every surface, Paris, then London, then New York. Each was at the QF stage. Serena's reputation as a bad loser stemmed from her inability to give Henin credit for being better than she was at that point.

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                                                  Oh and Sharapova stated she starting taking Meldonium when she was 18 or 19, IIRC. It grew to being a bevy of pills, into double figures before another doctor simplified her regime. And that is all by her own admission.

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                                                    Originally posted by Janik View Post
                                                    Oh and Sharapova stated she starting taking Meldonium when she was 18 or 19, IIRC. It grew to being a bevy of pills, into double figures before another doctor simplified her regime. And that is all by her own admission.
                                                    It's incredible to think that Henin, Clijsters, Hingis and Venus are all within a year or two either side of Serena age-wise. If they all stayed healthy then from perhaps 2003ish to 2015ish could have been the most incredible era for the WTA, perhaps to even rival the Big Four era of the ATP. So sad that it didn't materialise and Serena has been so unchallenged for the last decade.

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