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Why Would England Winning The World Cup Be A Bad Thing?

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    #26
    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
    Germany managed to win it in 2014 and it wasn't like that at all.
    Wasn't like what at all? You just suggested a list of objectionable English (and one US/Australian) cunts was reason for an England victory (as if) being a bad thing. If that's a reason, most countries have a list of cunts.

    I tend to try to avoid blaming the players and ordinary fans for the shite in the media (a significant portion of which is owned by the aforementioned Amero-Australian).

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      #27
      Nef and MS get the point I'm trying to make. England winning the world cup would become part of whatever slogan eventually replaces strong and stable falling out of Theresa May's mouth. and it would be all about a world cup brexit and making England Great again. It would be hijacked by all the worst people.

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        #28
        Originally posted by Moonlight shadow View Post
        Without Brexit i would not mind this rather nice young team win it but it is bound to be used by the Brexit ultras to push the 'plucky island can be on top again' narrative...

        Heroic defeat in semis will do
        As an English exile elsewhere, I admire your restraint. I'd be rooting for humiliation in the group stage.

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          #29
          Britain was the World Sporting Superpower two years ago. How long did that help May & co, 48 hours, a week?

          These crossovers are usually way over-hyped. Supposedly ... Kathy Freeman solved Australia's racial divide in 2000, assorted Asian-Americans have brought harmony and respect for their communities by doing something on ice, the All Blacks are a Pasifika/Maori team and ended racism in NZ ... etc. etc.

          99% bollocks, makes for a few op-eds, nothing more.

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            #30
            Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
            Theresa May and Boris Johnson would take the credit. And it would make nationalists even more nationalist.
            Yes of course they would. That's what arsehole parasites like that do. Whatever team wins, their own arsehole parasites will do the same.

            It's still got nothing to do with the football, though, which will provide fanstastic entertainment for four weeks, after which most people who watched it will have quickly forgotten who won it, never mind who was in it, and quite rightly so, because after all it's only fucking football.

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              #31
              I like the team. Gareth Southgate seems a decent bloke. But Harold Wilson always claimed that winning the 66 World Cup helped get him re-elected.

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                #32
                I really want this England to win it (not that they will). But it would undoubtedly be a bad thing.

                Not because it would embolden nationalists - that would happen everywhere. But because of the specific connection to Brexit, including the fact that it would distract the public from the upcoming disaster.

                Also, because it would embolden the morons who try and proclaim English club football as the best in the world.

                If we could eliminate the Premier League and Brexit, I'd be 100% for an England win, no matter how many racist wankers follow them around singing songs about bombers.

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                  #33
                  Yes of course they would. That's what arsehole parasites like that do. Whatever team wins, their own arsehole parasites will do the same.

                  Yeah, but the UK has a lot of them about at the moment. It's overwhelming.

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                    #34
                    Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                    Yeah, but the UK has a lot of them about at the moment. It's overwhelming.
                    And so do most other places, unfortunately. I'm beginning to miss the days when football was regarded as a weird minority activity on a par with, say, dogging.

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                      #35
                      Originally posted by Alderman Barnes View Post
                      And so do most other places, unfortunately. I'm beginning to miss the days when football was regarded as a weird minority activity on a par with, say, dogging.
                      I know AB, but it's gone well beyond a critical mass.

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                        #36
                        Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                        Nef and MS get the point I'm trying to make. England winning the world cup would become part of whatever slogan eventually replaces strong and stable falling out of Theresa May's mouth. and it would be all about a world cup brexit and making England Great again. It would be hijacked by all the worst people.
                        I think that any 'good thing' happening in the UK is subject to an attempted hijacked by bad people. But I think it's worth noting that the 2012 Olympics, for example, had a greater (positive) social legacy than a sporting one because it was undeniable that the national team's success was founded on social values that included public funding of sport, multi-racialism and multi-culturalism.

                        The England team contains young black men called Raheem and Alli and is coached by a man for whom teamwork and cohesion is more important than breast-beating and making speeches. They may not be very good at football, which is why this is a somewhat moot discussion, but I don't think there's a compelling argument for the improbable event being just 'bad'.

                        As someone old enough to remember Harold Wilson, I can confidently report that he said a lot of wrong things. For example, the 1966 election was three months before the WC final.

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                          #37
                          Saying you don't want England to win because Brexit means the thugs and loonies have already won.

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                            #38
                            The only good thing would be that the Jocks and the Free State hadn't won it

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                              #39
                              Not wanting England to succeed because of how right-wing Neanderthals 'might' appropriate such an event is effectively conceding defeat to said Neanderthals.

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                                #40
                                "Why Would England Winning The World Cup Be A Bad Thing?"

                                We'll never know...

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                                  #41
                                  I don't think the issue is just appropriation by Neanderthals; it's the fact that, like the 1977 Jubilee or 1981 Royal Wedding, it creates a false feelgood factor, brushing the bad economic news under the carpet. It adds a few percent to the Tory vote or at least reduces the attractiveness of voting against the government.

                                  It will also create a nostalgia industry that pollutes the schedules for years and which is imposed on the Scots and Welsh without their consent. Sir Harry Kane picks his Desert Island Discs, for fuck's sake.

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                                    #42
                                    I'm puzzled that the AEB feel the need to justify wanting England to fail. Surely support (or its inverse) in sport is completely subjective, arbitrary and circumstantial? I support Shrewsbury/England because that's where I spent my early years, not because aged 10, I evaluated the political, aesthetic and cultural factors involved and came to the conclusion that Shropshire > Bavaria and Peter Dolby > Franz Beckenbauer.

                                    In cricket, I will support Pakistan against India for no fucking reason whatsoever.

                                    I completely understand the Welsh, Irish, Dutch, whatever, wishing ill on England because of colonial history, frequently turgid football, shit anthem or a dodgy penalty award in 1987. But TBH, if the left is reduced to resenting an England win because of some spurious, unproven, imagined Tory benefit, then it might be better off addressing the psychological factors it can control.

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                                      #43
                                      Remember how the German national side was detested by so many and how it suddenly changed 2006 due to a very likeable squad and some nice football?
                                      This could be the year something similar happens for England.

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                                        #44
                                        Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
                                        I don't think the issue is just appropriation by Neanderthals; it's the fact that, like the 1977 Jubilee or 1981 Royal Wedding, it creates a false feelgood factor, brushing the bad economic news under the carpet.
                                        Neither of those things benefited the government of the day.

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                                          #45
                                          Originally posted by Pietro Paolo Virdis View Post
                                          Remember how the German national side was detested by so many and how it suddenly changed 2006 due to a very likeable squad and some nice football?
                                          This could be the year something similar happens for England.
                                          Yeah, but Germany in 2006 and England in 2018 are two radically different prospects. English nationalism is something to be afraid of. it's a horrendous thing, that lives under the UK stairs, emerging every now and again to horrify the world. England, much like Germany in the late forties, early fifties, needs to have a long sit down in a room with its history, and not emerge until they come to terms with the fact that they enslaved a quarter of the world in the not too distant past, and focus on building a new identity around the things that are actually good about the UK.
                                          Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 24-06-2018, 17:37.

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                                            #46
                                            Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
                                            I'm puzzled that the AEB feel the need to justify wanting England to fail. Surely support (or its inverse) in sport is completely subjective, arbitrary and circumstantial? I support Shrewsbury/England because that's where I spent my early years, not because aged 10, I evaluated the political, aesthetic and cultural factors involved and came to the conclusion that Shropshire > Bavaria and Peter Dolby > Franz Beckenbauer.

                                            In cricket, I will support Pakistan against India for no fucking reason whatsoever.

                                            I completely understand the Welsh, Irish, Dutch, whatever, wishing ill on England because of colonial history, frequently turgid football, shit anthem or a dodgy penalty award in 1987. But TBH, if the left is reduced to resenting an England win because of some spurious, unproven, imagined Tory benefit, then it might be better off addressing the psychological factors it can control.
                                            If only England fans were all like you, ChrisJ. The thing is that many who follow the national team are racist and supporters of the far right, and there has been a calculated attempt to recruit football fans to far right causes via the Footbal Lads Alliance and Tommy Robinson. I don't know what the Shrewsbury fans forum is like. On the Oxford United forum , theres always a couple keen to post videos to the latest Robinson video or anti Muslim meme or talking point.

                                            Meanwhile the Empire myths about British superiority, how we stood alone in the second world war and" if it wasn't for the English you'd be Krauts" are becoming more and more widespead. They power Brexit discourse and make it impossible to have any rational conversation about the future of the country. I think an English victory would give vast fuel to the racists and make it even harder to hold the politicians to account.

                                            I didn't like the London olympics much by the way. I thought they were a self congratulatory smugfest with a vast investment in a few people for medals as schools sold off their playing fields across the country. And there'a vast difference between Germany a country where public displays of nationalism were frowned upon and extremely rare and Britain where they are almost a weekly occurrence. Too many people here genuinely believe that the British are superior to other nations and universally loved..

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                                              #47
                                              Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
                                              Yeah, but Germany in 2006 and England in 2018 are two radically different prospects. English nationalism is something to be afraid of. it's a horrendous thing, that lives under the UK stairs, emerging every now and again to horrify the world. England, much like Germany in the late forties, early fifties, needs to have a long sit down in a room with its history, and not emerge until they come to terms with the fact that they enslaved a quarter of the world in the not too distant past, and focus on building a new identity around the things that are actually good about the UK.
                                              So do you think world war three will start if Tottenham or Arsenal win the Champions League?

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                                                #48
                                                If only England fans were all like you, ChrisJ.

                                                seconded. E10 Rifle had a picture from Marseilles in 1998, and he and his mates looked just like any other bunch of fans, looking to go drinking in the sun in a square with people from around the world, and generally have a good time. Because that's what most people are like. But That's not what england fans in marseilles are remembered for though.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Originally posted by Pietro Paolo Virdis View Post
                                                  So do you think world war three will start if Tottenham or Arsenal win the Champions League?
                                                  90% of PL fans aren't english.

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                                                    #50
                                                    Originally posted by ChrisJ View Post
                                                    I'm puzzled that the AEB feel the need to justify wanting England to fail. Surely support (or its inverse) in sport is completely subjective, arbitrary and circumstantial? I support Shrewsbury/England because that's where I spent my early years, not because aged 10, I evaluated the political, aesthetic and cultural factors involved and came to the conclusion that Shropshire > Bavaria and Peter Dolby > Franz Beckenbauer.

                                                    In cricket, I will support Pakistan against India for no fucking reason whatsoever.

                                                    I completely understand the Welsh, Irish, Dutch, whatever, wishing ill on England because of colonial history, frequently turgid football, shit anthem or a dodgy penalty award in 1987. But TBH, if the left is reduced to resenting an England win because of some spurious, unproven, imagined Tory benefit, then it might be better off addressing the psychological factors it can control.
                                                    Pretty much this.

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