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    #51
    How the fuck was so much evidence withheld from the jury? How will any rape victim come forward in future when the procedure is so stacked in favour of acquittal via the relevant evidence being excluded?

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      #52
      A woman texted the BBC today identifying herself only as the parent of a pupil at Methody/ Inst (Jackson and Olding's schools). She supported the jocks indulged argument Berba makes above

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        #53
        Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
        But this isn't really about Porn DG, this is the sort of thing that professional footballers in england were engaged in from the mid nineties on.
        Sexual intercourse began
        In nineteen ninety-three
        (which was rather early for me) -
        Between the start of the “backpass” ban
        And the Baggio missed penalty


        (with apologies to everything and everyone)

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          #54
          Originally posted by dogbeak View Post
          Sexual intercourse began
          In nineteen ninety-three
          (which was rather early for me) -
          Between the start of the “backpass” ban
          And the Baggio missed penalty


          (with apologies to everything and everyone)
          Applause for your larkin' about.

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            #55
            ...Between the Marseilles bribing farce
            And Seaman falling flat on his arse

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              #56
              Originally posted by Satchmo Distel View Post
              How the fuck was so much evidence withheld from the jury? How will any rape victim come forward in future when the procedure is so stacked in favour of acquittal via the relevant evidence being excluded?
              The Bit I find amazing is the Bedclothes. Jackson's bedsheets had several bloodstains that weren't the complainants, and presumably they weren't his (as a) They have his DNA, and b) his blood on the sheets wouldn't be remotely contentious. He plays a contact sport that leads to a lot of cuts and abrasions. Seriously, who the fuck sleeps in a bed so stained with blood that they have to airbrush pictures of your room that you don't prejudice a rape trial? Even if everything that ever happened in that room was always entirely consensual, that is seriously fucking creepy behaviour.

              I suppose some people in the North take the Fleg protests seriously, but sleeping on an actual butcher's apron is going a bit far. He's also looking for his legal fees. He has no fucking shame.

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                #57
                Agreed. Character references for the defence in a rape case just add to the slights on the accuser's character

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                  #58
                  Also what is the point of them? What does rory Best know about his teammate's attitude to consent? (not to pick on him personally)

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                    #59
                    I don't know anything about Northern Irish law, but in England & Wales if an accused has no prior convictions then his or her good character is part of the standard directions to the jury so it would be obligatory for the judge to give it.

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                      #60
                      It does seem a little unfair though that the complainants sexual history can be brought up, and a character witness can be called up, but the incident taking place on a bed like an abattoir floor has to be airbrushed out of photos. It's hard to imagine too many people ever making a complaint again.

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                        #61
                        I don't know enough about the specifics of the trial to comment on that. My experience is that decisions on what is allowed into evidence and what isn't, are not taken lightly.

                        Making a rape complaint is an very courageous act.

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                          #62
                          Etienne- NI matches E & W. It's consistent but consistently archaic. You can't base a modern legal and justice system on the class system from the Great Reform Bill or Domesday Book eras. Good character is at least in part a euphemism for privileged, no?

                          Berba- change is gonna come hopefully. This is hard to defend

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                            #63
                            Etienne, I don't think anyone had any complaints about any of the decisions to include or exclude evidence, given the rules that the Judge has to operate under. It's the laws that seem to be the problem.

                            Stopping the Judge's summing up to ask her to discharge the jury because of her tone, is fucking hardcore though. I don't think anyone was quite ready for how incredibly aggressive Nordie lawyers are. I have no idea how some of them go home to their families.

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                              #64
                              DG, I agree about character references, but the good character direction (which is what RC mentioned) is different.

                              I don't think that tinkering around the margins will make much difference. I just don't think an adversarial system works well with rape/sexual assault complaints.

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                                #65
                                Originally posted by Etienne View Post
                                I don't think that tinkering around the margins will make much difference. I just don't think an adversarial system works well with rape/sexual assault complaints
                                Agreed

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                                  #66
                                  Jackson and Olding sacked.

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                                    #67
                                    At least someone at Ulster Rugby has their head remotely screwed on. Unless it was the IRFU shouting at them.

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                                      #68
                                      Bank of Ireland and other sponsors,in the end money talks

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                                        #69
                                        Japan or France is their likely destination apparently. Not sure how well or not they'll be received. A club will pick them up but Ulster Rugby seem to have done they right thing all along in this case, suspension based on presumed innocence then sacking them despite the not guilty verdict due to their admitted behaviour.

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                                          #70
                                          Originally posted by Antepli Ejderha View Post
                                          Japan or France is their likely destination apparently. Not sure how well or not they'll be received. A club will pick them up but Ulster Rugby seem to have done they right thing all along in this case, suspension based on presumed innocence then sacking them despite the not guilty verdict due to their admitted behaviour.
                                          Yes, they certainly breached the "conduct unbecoming" clause in their contracts.

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                                            #71
                                            Originally posted by Diable Rouge View Post
                                            Yes, they certainly breached the "conduct unbecoming" clause in their contracts.
                                            The ex player pundits on BBC Ulster said they didn't even know these clauses existed in their contracts.

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                                              #72
                                              IRFU and UR are effectively the same organ- one is part of the other. They've acted to sort out their PR problem as predicted.

                                              They arguably worsened the problem, by sending other players to the Courtroom circus, letting senior figures like WJ McBride do crass media interviews and so on

                                              In employment law (if the players challenge the sacking, unlikely) there's an inbuilt bias for the employer. They just say 'needs of the business, gross misconduct' even if the contract doesn't specifically define it

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                                                #73
                                                Did players other than Rory Best show up? The Judge made it very clear that He was only in the courtroom because the prosecution asked him to go and see what he was vouching for. I also don't know what they could have done about Willie John McBride. He was being interviewed as the head of a supporters group. The Tension in this situation is between Ulster Rugby as an organization, which is trying to do things like Attract women to the sport, and to increase the number of women playing, and generally project a positive image to raise the profile of the sport in a competitive sporting marketplace, and then on the other hand you have the Ulster Rugby Family which seems to be largely made up of middle aged and older Northern Unionist men, and all of the attitudes towards women that that entails. That ad the fans took out talking about a "silent majority" who wanted the innocent men back playing for ulster being a prime example.

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                                                  #74
                                                  Originally posted by Duncan Gardner View Post
                                                  IRFU and UR are effectively the same organ- one is part of the other. They've acted to sort out their PR problem as predicted.

                                                  They arguably worsened the problem, by sending other players to the Courtroom circus, letting senior figures like WJ McBride do crass media interviews and so on

                                                  In employment law (if the players challenge the sacking, unlikely) there's an inbuilt bias for the employer. They just say 'needs of the business, gross misconduct' even if the contract doesn't specifically define it
                                                  It was Ferris and perhaps Andy Ward on the rugby saying that their contract may or may not have had a clause in it but they didn't know as they left everything for their agents to negotiate. Basically they said that they knew how much they got paid and that was it.

                                                  I didn't realise that Best was there at the request of the prosecution, were the players warned about showing support in public? That seems likely now more is coming out.

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                                                    #75
                                                    Hmm, I'm pretty sure that it was at the request of the prosecution. I could swear I read that in one of the various articles I've read. The Judge made it pretty clear He was there at the request of a senior counsel to hear the evidence of the complainant, and I don't see why a Defence counsel would want him to see that.

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