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The Peter Principle

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    The Peter Principle

    This states that people tend to rise, in organisations, just above - but not much further than - their level of comfort and confidence. I've been musing on this today, because an opportunity has come up for me that on paper would be a promotion - more money, kerching - but would mean a lot more travel outside normal hours and a lot more contact with very senior people.

    The travel I could probably cope with, although in the past I had a post that involved me staying in Pimlico two nights a week and, evenings in EIM's pub aside, I hated it. But the sitting in meetings with senior officials bit would really do me in. The urge to shout "no! You're all fucking idiots!" at some point would be my downfall, I fear. I'm going to turn it down.

    Anyone else reached a similar decision point?

    #2
    When working at SAP, I was approached a few times by my manager to see if I'd be interested in enrolling in an MBA course (which would have been partly funded by my employer). Apparently, this would have helped to propel me up the career ladder and he seemed confident that I could move on to a middle-management position with HR responsibility, etc. Thing was, I wasn't at all interested in that. I enjoyed working as a translator, and I enjoyed the project coordination job that I had progressed to: bit of travelling around Europe, working with translation agencies in various countries, learning about the technology and still doing a bit of translation work now and again. But I was having urges similar to those described by Rogin: I was finding it increasingly difficult not to blurt out similar phrases in the endless cycles of meetings that gradually took over more of the 'working' week. The prospect of doing that for another 30 years, or moving up and being expected to work at weekends, attend regular management off-site seminars and all that jibber-jabber did not appeal. To cut a long story short, I took the opportunity when a voluntary redundancy programme was launched and now I'm self-employed, translating from home, earning less - and quite happy with my lot...

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      #3
      I thought the Peter Principle was that everyone gets promoted to their maximum level of incompetence. So, on that basis, fill your boots.

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        #4
        I've spent the last twenty years of my career making sure that I don't get promoted into any sort of management role again...

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          #5
          During the fifteen years I spent at my last job, I was promoted and demoted several times without anybody telling me at the time. I only found out when we received a stack of 500 new business cards every two or three years.

          The only time I was aware of any changes was when I became caretaker chairman of the works council when the proper main man was off sick for six months. And even then it was because nobody else wanted to do it.

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            #6
            I used to work in the head office of one of the Big Four audit firms (here in Holland), and I hated it. The day they asked me to become head of department was the day I handed my notice in.

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              #7
              When I was last unemployed, I had a meeting with my now-boss and said "I don't want to manage anyone...I want to write...and I'm happy earning X." A month later he came back and said "I've got a great role...you'll manage a couple of junior writers...and the salary is X + 25%" and I said "I'll take it."

              Duh.

              I really hate managing people. I prefer to lead from the back of the room with casual suggestions and a generally snarky disrespect for authority. Now I'm at the front of the room saying "make sure you stay on top of your time sheets".

              Ugh.

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                #8
                Originally posted by WOM View Post
                Now I'm at the front of the room saying "make sure you stay on top of your time sheets".
                I couldn't abide those people in my last job. Particularly as they themselves had somebody to do their timesheet for them.

                And then, in the first week of the following month, they'd send you a mail along the lines of "You needed 8.5 hours for Assignment XY, although you were allotted only 6.5 hours. Why?"

                And when you replied with "Because, on Tuesday 16th, I had to sit through one of your three-hour presentations about "Snappy Writing On The Web" that you nicked off the internet, even though you yourself couldn't even write your own name with a marker pen on a lavatory wall without the fucking cubicle collapsing through sheer boredom", they'd get all arsey.

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                  #9
                  Yeah. We keep hearing "Guys, you gotta get your reviews done by end of March" over and over and over. Meanwhile, mine's been bumped at least 10 times now. It's as if the end of March isn't a week or so away.

                  Oh, and I do my own timesheet, and I'm always at least three weeks behind. I love inputting Vacation weeks because it's just 7.5 right across the board. Small things...

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                    #10
                    I could never work out why people who were promoted for being good at their job - not that many promotions occurred for that reason - ended up in a position that didn't require said strengths.

                    You'd get a shit-hot graphic designer being promoted and, as part of the new-broom, muscle-flexing shenanigans, then sending a mail round saying, "I've done a restructure of the folders on the server. Just thought I'd let you know." So you then had a server on which nobody knew where anything was and a shit-hot designer fucking about instead of doing shit-hot designs.

                    If people are good, do your utmost to keep them. Give them more money, more freedom, a car, a personal masseur, a microwave, a coffee percolator, whatever - but don't promote them just for the sake of it.
                    Last edited by treibeis; 22-03-2018, 14:50.

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                      #11
                      Quite. "He's a good writer, so he must be equally adept at managing other temperamental human beings."

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                        #12
                        I have just been told that due to GDPR everything has to be kept under lock and key each night. My room is pretty much the archetypal solicitors' office with old files, paper, bit of God knows what strewn over every surface. I don't think I can cope with trying to clear it up. My solution is to douse the lot in petrol, strike a match and start afresh when the shouting has stopped.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by WOM View Post
                          Quite. "He's a good writer, so he must be equally adept at managing other temperamental human beings."
                          He's a solicitor, an opinionated know it all who adores the sound of his own voice, but he has made us lots of money. Let's bring him into the partnership with lots of other people exactly the same and watch the cooperation flow!

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                            #14
                            I had a job once where time sheets were introduced when none had ever been required prior. This worked for certain parts of the company where people billed hours worked to the relevant job but they filled in time sheets anyway. My role was different, I was paid on results and at least 80% of my efforts were unsuccessful and unbillable. That wasn't entirely down to my failings btw, it was just the job. Hence, I was very tardy with complying with a pointless directive until my line manager eventually called me in for a dressing down. He read the riot act and told me I was the second worst filler inner of time sheets.

                            'Oh right, sorry. But you know it's a load of bollocks. Who's the worst by the way?'

                            'I am!' he rather sheepishly replied. He thought it was bollocks also but had been promoted to a position that didn't suit him and he didn't like. He was/is a really decent guy and I suspect he told his boss to deal with me the next time I was falling down on the time sheet task.

                            'What's this?' He asked, flourishing my time sheets in front of me. 'Three hours for 'filling in timesheets' you can't put that down!'

                            'Why not? It took me three hours, I had months to fill in!'

                            It was quietly dropped.

                            I wasn't particularly bolshy really and I worked hard but I really didn't want to be a manager and left when I was offered promotion to work for myself. It avoids all the games you have to play with bosses. On presenting my first expenses claim on moving to the Head Office (I was never tardy with them) the big boss called me in to query various items. I took it away to 'check' and represented it with about £100 of additional items, all properly receipted.

                            'Thanks very much boss, I would have missed those if you hadn't asked me to check.'

                            He never queried another claim.

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                              #15
                              Heh. One of my pod mates got stuck in Maine two weeks ago in that blizzard. Accounting sent her a terse email asking whether her $340 in roaming charges was accurate. She sent back "yes" and got a chipper 'Ok thanks!" in reply.

                              Nice to know someone's watching.

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                                #16
                                My current client doesn't trust my 10 years of product knowledge and insists on getting Microsoft to verify it all because they don't have people who can verify it themselves. Of course not. That's why I'm here - to drag this bloody company into some kind of modern IT. I genuinely think that my gig at BICC Brand Rex, which ended in 2001, had more modern IT practices than this place right now. There is little or no technical knowledge at all, and all the technical review boards are staffed by people who have no technical experience at all.

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                                  #17
                                  I've said on here before that I've spent the last four Christmases out of work because of temporary contracts and redundancy, but I've never really known what it is I should be doing.

                                  In amongst all of the thoughts every hour of every day that it might be a better idea to step into the road in front of a speeding car, I knew that I didn't want to travel far or have a role with a particularly high-ranking company (travelling from Bury to Warrington and back very nearly killed me when I was at United Utilities, and my work suffered massively).

                                  Like WOM above, I've reached a stage in life where I know what I'm good at. I'm not a captain of industry, nor have I any desire to be, but a half-decent salary in a permanent role that will allow me to buy a house was my aim. And after being head-hunted by an old work contact in January, that's now what I have. I work with good people who trust me to do what i'm paid to do, which is a huge boost after some micro-management, and I think I can say I'm happy.

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                                    #18
                                    Fair play Giggler,good to hear that. I have spent the last 30 odd years working for a large semi state company,I've never been interested in promotion,mainly cause I've seen the shit that middle managers have to go through. One of the amusing parts of the month is the arrival of the company magazine and seeing what bellend I worked with years ago has been promoted way above his ability. Last month one of the worst was one of four employees of the month for basically doing his job. When I looked closer he was nominated by his second in command who was probably just given the form to sign. When I think of having to take orders from the likes of him makes me more happy than ever to sign in,work,go home

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                                      #19
                                      Surely being acclaimed "employee of the month" is as much an incentive as a discouragement?

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                                        #20
                                        I've always been terrified of management. To the extent of walking away from my own design practice because it'd reached the point where I needed full-time employees and couldn't face that responsibility. Similarly, I've been contract faculty for twenty-five years, as full-time inevitably brings admin responsibilities. Partly — possibly mostly — it's fear, of being responsible for someone else's life (the prospect of having to fire someone would send me to therapy I'm certain.) But it's also because I'm a firm believer in being a practitioner. Possessing a concrete skill in something is very precious, without it my life would lack meaning. Similarly, managing people practicing skills similar to mine, when I wasn't, would be a profoundly depressing prospect.

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                                          #21
                                          There’s no upside of being a manager that I can see, unless it means a shitload more money, some creative control, and/or makes one in charge of the whole operation, and being in charge of the whole operation would only be cool if said operation were something like a Major League Baseball team or a comic book publisher or the largest chain of unpainted furniture outlets throughout the southwest.

                                          Usually it just means a little more money for a lot more responsibility and hassle, no chance of being paid overtime, and having seven people above you on the org chart instead of eight. Or four instead of five, etc.

                                          That’s one reason I’m in a rut. Because I don’t see any way forward in my current job that will lead to a more satisfying job. My boss’s job, for example, doesn’t seem at all appealing.

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                                            #22
                                            That 'unpainted furniture' line really touched my funny bone.

                                            Anyway, I lost a good writer today. Great guy, but couldn't hack the pace. Shit happens real fast at our place, and he came from the sane confines of a bank marketing group. It wasn't going to work, and he went back to his old gig right before we had to fire him.

                                            Now to hire, train and go through the slow ramp-up all over again.

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                                              #23
                                              Management is destroying my stomach. And lovely chest pains.

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                                                #24
                                                Waking from half sleep about work ffs.

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                                                  #25
                                                  I'm not doing much management at the moment, but I think I've become Peter Principled by the advance of technology instead.

                                                  I was fairly good at what I was doing 20 years ago. I was OK at it 10 years ago. But I increasingly think that I'm basically out of my depth now - my skills haven't advanced as fast as the tech, and the stuff my peers produce these days is just jaw-dropping. The trouble is, I'm not sure what else I'd be able to do, either.

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