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What Would Constitute A Successful 2018 World Cup?

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    #26
    Kuwait ironically have just served a long suspension for political interference.

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      #27
      I would say Brazil V Germany was a drama. Hugely compelling.

      To watch the long - standing myth surrounding Brazilian football being so brutally and swiftly demolished.

      To watch the expressions on the faces of both their players and their supporters.

      And the German team, who always gave me an impression of being one of the more decent and sympathetic group of players, appearing almost embarrassed and awkward at having caused such a meltdown.

      And yes, the pure (and to be honest, frightening) anticipation of the repercussions after the game.

      I was transfixed.

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        #28
        I don't think that the brilliance of the Brazil teams of 1958 and 1970 - or indeed 1982 - is any kind of 'myth' at all, to be honest. I'd also wager that any real belief that they were still that good had been dismantled some good while before. (Brazil were the host nation - and one that had lost a World Cup on home soil previously - so the hype surrounding them was bound to be greater.)

        For supporters of neither nation, this was pure schadenfreude.

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          #29
          I found the Brazil-Germany game dramatic to the last kick as I had a bet on a big German win but with Brazil scoring

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            #30
            Originally posted by Jah Womble View Post
            I don't think that the brilliance of the Brazil teams of 1958 and 1970 - or indeed 1982 - is any kind of 'myth' at all, to be honest. I'd also wager that any real belief that they were still that good had been dismantled some good while before. (Brazil were the host nation - and one that had lost a World Cup on home soil previously - so the hype surrounding them was bound to be greater.)
            I don't think Logan was suggesting Brazil had never truly been brilliant, Jah, but was referring to the enduring myth they've long carried around them of playing both a better and somehow more joyous and effervescent 'samba soccer' that the rest of the world just can't touch, despite their not really deserving it since about 1982.

            I don't know how much "real belief that they were still that good" had been dismantled, until then, because as a popular/media narrative that myth was still, as always, accompanying them. Seeing the 'emperor's new clothes' revealed so publicly and brutally like that was what contributed so much to the feeling of catharsis.

            Of course, one kind of knew even in the moment that such is the enduring power of that narrative, it will still spring back like the Wizard of Oz's curtain being dragged back into place, as soon as a suitable amount of time has passed. And to be fair to Brazil, they will always produce genuinely good players who will remain a threat, so they'll continue to deserve their aura to at least some extent. The fascination of watching to the end to see whether Germany could hit double figures against them, in a World Cup semi-final, was so intense precisely because of the certainty that this was on all counts a complete one-off.

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              #31
              If it’s called off.

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                #32
                There's still an expectation that Brazil will be more entertaining than the European teams although it has not happened since 1982. Media bollocks that just won't die. Same as the West Ham expectation domestically.

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                  #33
                  I think there possibly is a media thing about Brazil but its not really a football media thing even at tabloid level. It's kind of Hello magazine levels of knowledge and analysis. As for West Ham I don't even think West Ham fans buy into that ludicrous myth any more

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                    #34
                    Yep, I think ad hoc's closest to the reality of any continuing 'myth' here - it's a broader media construct, is all. There's always huge pressure on Brazil to perform as a result - particularly at their own tournament - but this largely comes from somewhere other than themselves. (And 'aspiring to a high standard' is obviously a different ball-game again...)

                    I guess that's why I'm not entirely buying into all this relentless 'that showed them!' rhetoric. (I also retain some sympathy for the home fans to whom it clearly meant a lot - especially those old enough to have endured such defeat twice in their own country. A disappointingly unique circumstance for them.)

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                      #35
                      I don't think Brazil's supposed exceptionalism was so much a myth in more recent times than a lazy fall-back fed by the cliché of The Beautiful Game, and supported by the invariable presence of at least one exceptional player in the team.

                      But there is also a kernel of truth to the notion of Brazilian exceptionalism: they are very hard to beat. After 1966 and before the 7-1, all but one of Brazil's eliminations were pretty close-run things -- the only time it really wasn't, it was in a final. The 7-1 and the capitulation against Holland that followed it are total outliers.

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                        #36
                        Originally posted by Felicity, I guess so View Post
                        “institutionalised corruption, bigoted politicians, distortions of democracy by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement, rampant racism, gun violence, right-wing polemic, environment-fucking, coup-fomenting, jihadist-arming, Saudi-loving, Yemen-bombing, Israel-enabling, country-invading and war crimes-committing” cool-tasting Pepsi...
                        We didn't start the fire...

                        Also, could we stop beating up on West Ham? (Stupid question) The team that consistently gets the media drooling without ever producing anything to justify it is Spurs.

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