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    Marseille

    EDIT: Removed
    Last edited by Johnny Velvet; 05-11-2021, 13:36.

    #2
    I can definitely recommend Cassis, if you are looking for a nice place to stay. The Calanques are beautiful. Although, like anywhere on the Cote d' Azur massively overcrowded and best avoided in July/August. May and June are the best times to visit.

    Comment


      #3
      Montpellier is fucking lovely. Get the train there.

      I didn't mind Marseille. It felt like a proper city, and not as moody as people had said it would be. Had some terrific Moroccan snap by the harbour, right near the spot loads of England fans got turfed in the water by Russians during the Euros. Wonderful.

      Comment


        #4
        http://inbedwithmaradona.com/marseil...g-boys?rq=Mars

        Should have included a link

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          #5
          Mucem is stunning and brilliantly situated. The city history museum is also very interesting. You can take a boat trip to the Calanques, which I would highly recommend, along with the Chateau d’If, especially if you have an interest in Dumas.

          I’m afraid that my lodging info is grievously out of date.

          Strong second for Montpellier if you are considering a multi-city break, and for Cassis if you want to explore something less urban.

          Comment


            #6
            I really enjoyed Nimes, which IIRC was about a 90 minute train to Marseille (we took the train there to fly out of Marseille). Lots of Roman history there, and the Jardins de lo Fontaine are a lovely spot to wander around in. We unfortunately didn't get to see the Pont du Gard, which is one of the main attractions of Nimes (it's actually a bus ride outside of town, but we arrived in Nimes on a Friday and the buses don't run there on weekends in the fall and winter).

            Comment


              #7
              You can reach Nimes (which is great) in just over an hour on a direct train from Marseille St Charles; Montpellier is a bit more than an hour and a half.

              Cassis is half an hour away on a regional train.

              Comment


                #8
                There's lots of great Roman architecture in that part of France. Nimes (not just the Pont du Gard), Arles, Orange, Vaison-la-Romaine, St. Romain-en-Gal.

                Also, as I always recommend, be sure to drive across the Viaduc de Millau.

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                  #9
                  It's a real shame about the Pont Du Gard. In the old days when I lived in Avignon it was completely open. You could walk freely along the top and beach it on the river below. Our dog loved it there. We even slept in the aquaduct at the top for a laugh.

                  Went back a few years ago and there was a car park with exorbitant prices. We were so disgusted we didn't bother. Apparently access is very restricted now. It's been turned into a British - style tourist rip off.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I was in Marseille for four nights for a work conference last year. It's older areas are appealingly scruffy like Naples or Lisbon. I liked the steep walk to Notre-Dame de la Garde from the Old Port and the stunning views from there. The Musée Cantini (modern art including Picasso) and Musée des Beaux-Arts were both shut when I was there. The Musée des Beaux-Arts would be worth your time. We stayed in the Docks - clearly a lot of gentrification/regeneration happened recently - it was shiny and new with very good value 4 star hotels around as well as trams and metro. The hotels around the Old Port looked dated. The opera I went to was to a good standard and the opera house was atmospheric. Wouldn't recommend unless you were an opera fan though.

                    That said, unless you are using it as a base for day trips or part of a multi-stop trip, I would think you would do it justice in a long weekend.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      If you’re into architecture the Le Corbusier tower block along the road from the Velodrome is great. We stayed in a fully restored flat in the block for a long weekend but there’s a cafe/restaurant for brief visits

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Reginald Christ View Post
                        Looks like I'll be able to take a holiday later this year and I was weighing up Marseille and the south of France in general as a possible destination. It's partly to do with football; I'd like to see a match at the Vélodrome. But Marseille's location and its cultural and ethnic diversity is something I'd love to check out too. I've been told (by a French person) to avoid it seeing as it's in their estimation second only to Paris in terms of cities that are unpopular with many French people themselves but I'd rather not take this person's word for it. Any reading/stories/recommendations would be welcome as always, cheers.
                        I'll come back onto this later if I've got time but a lot of crap basically (his advice to "avoid Marseille"). But yeah, Marseille's not terribly popular probably but most people have never been there and only know it through the crime prism, it has considerably moved on since the 1980-90s FFS, over 10m tourists last year IIRC, was a bit of a dump in the 1980s but so were many other French cities.

                        Paris unpopular? (as a tourist destination) Jesus Christ...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          All good recommendations.

                          Defo walk up to "La Bonne Mère" basilica (Notre-Dame de La Garde) as they call it locally, as per Ek weet’s suggestion. Great panoramic views from the top.

                          Petit Train is cool too, I like these little train rides, especially when the driver is sozzled or drive erratically as it happened to us in Rouen where said driver was speeding round corners of narrow streets in the old town and sending bar terraces' chairs flying, a right hoot (either he was drunk or someone had just pissed him off, or both).

                          http://www.petit-train-marseille.com...seille-en.html

                          Visit of Stade Vélodrome: http://www.orangevelodrome.com/en/visits/ (can’t tell you about it, haven't done it yet).

                          Les Calanques (now a National Park) and Cassis both absolute musts.

                          Trip to L’Estaque area too north of Marseille, especially by train (cracking train line) or boat (very pleasant, municipal boat/public transport), will post more on L’Estaque (and beyond), a must-visit IMO.

                          Plenty of great markets in Marseille too, http://www.marvellous-provence.com/m...to-see/markets

                          Visit Noailles neighbourhood near the Vieux Port, an old, lively, scruffy, chaotic, exotic 'hood, very atmospheric and "authentic" sort of place (as in the traditional image of Marseille people have).

                          From the Net:

                          Nestled behind the Vieux Port de Marseille, the Noailles neighbourhood sits right in the centre of the city and is located in the 1er arrondissement. A true multi-cultural treasure trove, Noailles is a bustling melting-pot of different languages, cultures, sights and smells! Whilst this might seem a little disorientating to begin with, if you dig a little deeper beneath the surface, there are some true gems to be found in this lively area.

                          The Market at Noailles (Le Marché de Noailles) Also known as the Marché des Capucins, this crowded, chaotic, cheerful food market takes place in the narrow side-streets just off the top of the Canebière, a couple of hundred metres from the Old Port.
                          Visit Le Panier neighbourhood too. Le Panier is the historic centre of Marseille, oldest 'hood, near the Vieux Port, very picturesque, done up since 2000, touristic, profile boosted since mid-2000s as it’s the setting for France’s most popular soap opera, Plus Belle La Vie (the misérabiliste French answer to Coronation Street but with Pastis and olives), France’s only soap in fact I think, a genre unknown in France until this shite came along about 15 years ago, blame globalisation and standardisation.

                          https://wild-about-travel.com/marsei...ier-le-panier/

                          Below, Le Panier.



                          Last edited by Pérou Flaquettes; 18-03-2018, 18:08.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            L’Estaque then. I also recommend a day out to L’Estaque and beyond, either by boat from the Vieux Port (public transport, so very cheap, navette maritime RTM) or by train. You could take a boat there and come back by train for instance. There’s a bus that goes to L’Estaque too (#35) but really best to go there by train/boat.

                            http://www.rtm.fr/sites/all/librarie...8_Horaires.pdf

                            Several lovely coastal villages past L’Estaque, nearly all on them on the Train de la Côte Bleue line. http://www.plages.tv/guide-touristiq...-cote-bleue-16

                            L’Estaque is an old suburban harbour (North Marseille, 16th district), boat goes past great landmarks (MuCEM, Pharo etc.). Mix of modern (large marina etc) and an old picturesque village, 3 beaches too, 1 is particularly lovely with seafood eatery, cafés etc. can't remember which one. It’s a bit of an artists’ colony, many close associations with painting as lots of famous painters used to live/paint there including some heavyweights (Dufy, Renoir, Cézanne, Braque, Derain etc.).
                            Colourful market too but markets everywhere there, not just there (all over France) but Provençal markets particularly nice, lots of tat of course in some of them ("huile d'olive de Provence" made in Tunisia, same for "savon de Marseille" - pretty much all from Tunisia, lovely of course, I'm not saying - basically the same as they'd make in Marseille or used to make in Marseille but imported from across the Med. Or another classic, the "herbes de Provence" from... Poland - where most of the exotic herbs come from now. But it's good fun, very relaxing. There is an artistic trail in L'Estaque, two in fact, one short and one large, called "Petit/Grand Chemin des Peintres”:

                            There are arty walking tours too in L’Estaque (in French only I think, don’t know). Check on Trip Advisor or ask Tourist Office when you get there, L’Estaque is not a very touristic place (but pretty busy, popular with locals).

                            L’Estaque is the first train stop on the spectacular Train de la Côte Bleue line north of Marseille to Miramas, 18 viaducts, tunnels, creeks etc. great views (line hugs the north-west coastline of Marseille for about 10 miles and then inland towards Miramas).



                            Great way to spend a morning/afternoon or a day, take that slow train to La Couronne or Martigues (a very pleasant town nicknamed the "Provençale Venice", a bit like Sète in Languedoc, briefly in the top flight in the early 1990s, now in Nationale 2, fourth tier of French football, so semi professionals. Ex Owl clogger Patrick Blondeau started there)


                            Martigues.



                            The Blue Coast train is the very best way to see the dramatic landscape west and north of Marseille, with its rugged hills and tiny villages snuggled in deep limestone calanques.
                            http://www.marvellous-provence.com/t...ue-coast-train

                            https://www.ter.sncf.com/paca/loisir...ain-cote-bleue




                            There are Calanques there too on this side of Marseille (called Calanques de la Côte Bleue), not as dramatic as those south of Marseille (between Marseille and Cassis) but far less touristic and quaint, lots of lovely villages (like Niolon, below), gorgeous scenery especially by train.

                            http://www.calanques13.com/calanques-cote-bleue.html








                            Consider Sandermans type of tours (no Sandermans for Marseille but Trip Advisor will probably have details or list of a wide variety of walking tours in Marseille).

                            Here in fact:

                            https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attrac...te_d_Azur.html

                            https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attrac...te_d_Azur.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Reginald Christ View Post
                              Looks like I'll be able to take a holiday later this year and I was weighing up Marseille and the south of France in general as a possible destination. It's partly to do with football; I'd like to see a match at the Vélodrome. But Marseille's location and its cultural and ethnic diversity is something I'd love to check out too. I've been told (by a French person) to avoid it seeing as it's in their estimation second only to Paris in terms of cities that are unpopular with many French people themselves but I'd rather not take this person's word for it. Any reading/stories/recommendations would be welcome as always, cheers.
                              Re the Marseille’s bad rep.

                              Marseille has a better image since gentrification started proper (slowly) about 15 years ago and since the municipality has seriously spruced up the Vieux Port area & city centre in general (€1bn invested in the decade, on-going, still dodgy areas near Porte d’Aix for instance. Up to approx. 15-20 yrs ago, it really was scruffy and insalubrious, lots of drugs, squats, etc., people were deserting/avoiding the city centre in their droves.

                              The European City of culture status gained in 2013, general awareness by the municipality that they should capitalise on tourism given their location & heritage, and city-wide cultural development (MuCEM being the jewel in the crown) have done a lot too to raise the profile of the city and contributed to get Marseille out of that rut although it's far from being out of the woods so to speak obvs but it’s definitely on the up.

                              Marseille, the transformation of a city

                              Re MuCEM, shame about the timing of your visit Reginald, there was a cracking exhibition on football there from Oct. 2917 to Feb. 2018, "Nous sommes foot !" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3iA3XaD9us and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAIgeJNALDQ.

                              Gentrification is slow and impacting the outer areas more at the minute, mostly the post 6th, 7th and 8th districts but hypercentre too now, 1st and 2nd, the traditionally "scruffy areas" if you like, as most of the areas surrounding the fabulous Vieux Port are now starting to be coveted.

                              https://www.20minutes.fr/marseille/2...ains-quartiers

                              Of course, the same shit happens in all large French cities but Marseille’s peculiarity is that inner-city and dodgy areas are close to city centre (or closer than elsewhere anyway, like the notorious 3rd district on which I wrote about in the French politics thread ~ 9 months ago if you’re interested, I’m mentioning it as you mention being keen to read up on Marseille, modest contribution on my part in that French politics thread but you might as well start with OFT material, at least you know it’s not biased! ).

                              The municipality, via its large municipal police department, has also cracked down on violent crime problems that plagued parts of the city centre, they trebled the number of policiers municipaux between 2005 and 2015 (you see them on foot or mountain bikes), installed lots of CCTV etc. The situation has improved and boosted the profile and attractiveness of Marseille (the notorious arrachage de collier (en or)" – gold necklace snatching – was known as a local speciality, it even had - and still has probably - its own crime nomenclature ("Vols de colliers") alongside car crime, armed robberies, burglaries etc.



                              Of course this particular scourge wasn’t confined to Marseille but it was prevalent/more high profile there, with backstreet jewellers in cahoots, up to 30 muggings and necklaces snatched a day ~2012 (elderly people were mostly targeted), the problem really got terrible in the hypercentre before it was addressed, or moved away, but this particular type of crime has gradually been driven away from the centre. There is still a problem with Smartphone/handbag snatching but less so and it's more peripheral geographically speaking.

                              https://www.francetvinfo.fr/marseill...ol_325994.html

                              Comment


                                #16
                                Also, Reginald:

                                Aix-en-Provence (I don't think it's been mentioned), 30-odd trains/day from Marseille, quick journey the SNCF blurb:

                                Try travelling by train from Marseille to Aix-en-Provence: the journey will take you about 30 minutes. Discover the beautiful city of Aix-en-Provence, known by many as the City of Cezanne.
                                Make sure not to miss the Cours Mirabeau or the Vieil Aix during your stay. Famous for its art museums like Granet Museum, Galerie Imbert or Atelier Cezanne, Aix-en-Provence has so much to offer its visitors! Meet the old Aix-en-Provence by visiting the Pavillon de Vendome, the Cathedrale St. Sauveur or the Eglise de la Madeleine. Aix-en-Provence has also beautiful churches and cathedrals, such as Cloitre Saint-Sauveur or Chapelle Penitents-gris (Chapelle des Bourras). The Halle aux Grains, the Hotel de Ville and the Foundation Vasarely are remarkable architectural buildings that will without a doubt catch your attention. There is something so impressive about the Musee d'Histoire Naturelle and the Musee du Vieil Aix that it would be a shame to miss out on any of them.

                                A chance to admire France's beautiful sites by travelling by train. From Marseille St Char station, you will reach directly Aix-en-Provence. European railway stations are usually centrally situated in cities. You can book your ticket online and just use the mobile app to save it (m-ticket service). No check-in is usually required. Depending on your tickets (flexible or semi-flexible), you can request a refund or an exchange if you need to cancel your trip. If you're travelling on Thalys, TGV or Eurostar, you can bring two large items each (no more than 33''), plus one small item of hand luggage.
                                Lovely Old Town, squares, fountains and markets in Aix. This PDF leaflet on markets has all the details, by types etc.

                                http://www.aixenprovence.fr/IMG/pdf/...ent_site-2.pdf

                                Some of these Provençal places have "fountain trails", such as Pernes les Fontaines near Avignon (small town with 40 fountains), there's often a map ("Circuits des fontaines") downloadable from the Net or given by Tourist office about these trails with a quiz sometimes, pleasant option for a couple of hours as it takes you off the beaten track, to quaint squares, little alleys etc. Perfect if it’s a hot day of course.

                                Great markets in Aix, stroll down the fab and lively Cours Mirabeau, great market on Cour Mirabeau (Tuesdays, Th., Sat.) 100s of stalls, typical Provençal sort of market.

                                If you’re interested in Cézanne, there’s the Atelier Cézanne in Aix, basically his workshop, lovely gardens. Not an awful lot to see but pleasant walk from city centre and relaxing sort of activity to do as it provides a respite from Aix city centre which can get awfully busy.

                                http://www.aixenprovence.fr/IMG/pdf/...ent_site-2.pdf

                                Let me know if you’re into Cézanne at all, I remember reviewing the recently-released film Cézanne et Moi (worth ordering on Amazon), in the Current Watching thread, I’ll dig it out if you want.

                                Also, depending on the length of your stay of course, you could include the lovely Aigues-Mortes (+ Camargue) and Arles too.

                                Plenty of additional options the other way (towards Nice), lovely coastline and lots to see but obviously very different from Marseille and area.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  Aix is one of my favourite places in Europe

                                  Comment


                                    #18
                                    It's probably 2 decades since I was there, but with that qualification I'd agree with Ursus. Aix is lovely.

                                    Comment


                                      #19
                                      You're welcome Reg, pas d' soucis as we say (no bother/don't mention it) most of the stuff I've posted here is from an email I'd written for Scottish friends who visited the area about 7 years ago (I know the area well, a lot of my non-parents relatives live down there - Provence/Midi -, more to the Nice and Languedoc-Roussillon side, I used to go to Provence and Midi regularly but not anymore).

                                      Some good links here on street & mural art in Marseille (mostly Le Panier area):

                                      https://yrofthemonkey.com/marseille-street-art/

                                      http://www.loumessugo.com/en/blog/en...nier-marseille

                                      https://www.cntraveler.com/galleries...fiti-paintings

                                      https://www.lepanierdemarseille.com/...city-marseille







                                      Comment


                                        #20
                                        I forgot to say Reg, if you’re visiting Marseille before June 29th, check out this site http://www.cestlagreve.fr/ (search function on the right handside, by location and sector) as the forthcoming rail/air-traffic strike action may affect your travel plans, it started yesterday and it’s due to continue on a "grève larvée" basis (rolling strikes) for the next three months or until gvt and unions find a compromise (negotiations are on-going and I would imagine they will find some sort of common ground in the coming weeks so hopefully it won't last that long, rail unions aren't united over this one so it could peter out although they don't need that many people to paralyse the network, especially TGVs which are always more targeted; last autumn's strike action and demos over labour laws were a damp squib, this one looks more solid though but I haven't really had time to read much about it TBH).

                                        French rail strikes: The 37 days to avoid train travel in France this spring

                                        Also, re your reading recom. request, this is a good article on the cité phocéenne (Marseille's nickname), its rebellious role in history, its bad rep etc. (in French sorry, feel free to ask if you have any vocab-related Qs).

                                        Pourquoi déteste-t-on les Marseillais?

                                        Below is an excerpt.

                                        Victime idéale

                                        Marseille a un passif de rebelle. Son intégration au royaume de France en 1481 a engendré une série d’actes de résistance au pouvoir central. En 1524, les femmes de Marseille ont creusé des tranchées pour empêcher Charles de Bourbon de prendre la ville. En 1589, c’est à Henri IV qu’elle refusera de se soumettre. Soixante-dix ans plus tard, Louis XIV matera la sédition en construisant les forts Saint-Jean et Saint-Nicolas, de chaque côté du Vieux-Port. Les canons des deux bâtiments sont tournés non pas vers la mer mais vers la cité.

                                        De rebelles, les Marseillais deviennent coupables antipatriotiques. À la Révolution française, la prise de pouvoir de la Convention ne sera pas acceptée par les Marseillais. En guise de punition, Marseille sera rebaptisée la «Ville-sans-nom».

                                        Les habitants n’ont cessé de revendiquer une forte identité. Quitte à jouer, cent fois plus que des Montpelliérains ou des Grenoblois –au hasard–, les fanfarons.

                                        «Entre eux, ils savent que c’est du jeu, de la comédie humaine, décrypte le journaliste Philippe Pujol. De l'extérieur, c’est pris au premier degré.» Plus que de détestation, le lauréat du prix Albert-Londres en 2014 pour ses reportages dans les quartiers nord, parle d’un pouvoir de fascination et de répulsion. Michel Peraldi, auteur de Gouverner Marseille, choisit lui le terme d’«infériorisation».

                                        Une récurrence anthropologique pousse les classes moyennes, lorsqu’elles réussissent, à appuyer sur la tête des autres. Lorsque la France a perdu ses colonies, elle a trouvé en Marseille «un exotisme à portée de train», estime le sociologue. Une victime idéale. Un pittoresque vanté pour son ciel bleu. Une fantaisie caricaturée à coups de boules de pétanque et finalement, une différence méprisée.

                                        De la même manière que l’Italie a Naples, que le Royaume-Uni a eu un temps Birmingham, que les États-Unis ont les Texans, la France a Marseille. Dans tous ces pays, la distinction de certaines villes s’exerce dans une opposition au centre, à la capitale.

                                        En France, le dénigrement de Marseille s’opère principalement depuis Paris, la première étant une quintessence de tous les suds: Corse, Italie, Espagne, Maghreb s’y mêlent. «Dans les sociétés du Sud, on vit dans la rue, développe Michel Peraldi. On a des familiarités liées à l’espace public. Dans le Nord, les sociabilités sont faites sur la proximité idéologique.»
                                        Last edited by Pérou Flaquettes; 23-03-2018, 21:49.

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