Overrated cuisine

[Toby Gymshorts]

".....children at your feet..."

[Bored Of Education]

I thought that premium vodkas and rums (and, indeed, gins) had been a thing for a while. It's 'artisanal' that is the new thing, isn't it? Mind you, I think premium rum is Havana Club 7 Year Old so I doubt I am an expert. I did get given a bottle of the Crystal Head vodka (for the bottle, natch) and that is very good, it has to be said.

[ad hoc]

I thought that premium vodkas and rums (and, indeed, gins) had been a thing for a while.

Aye but you're a rockstar. Ahead of the mere mortals like us

[Bored Of Education]

<whispers> It's cold tea in the Jack Daniels bottles

[Hot Pepsi]

By “premium” do we mean obscure, tiny batch, I-prefer-their-early-stuff wankery or just the usual decent stuff on the shelf behind the bar (as opposed to the “well”)?

Is “well drink” a term in the UK?

[Hot Pepsi]

In Romanian the expression directly translates as Lady Companion

That’s very pleasant

[Lang Spoon]

Wankery mostly, HP. Hendricks (smallish Scots gin maker*) replaced the usual Bombay/Gordon’s offerings in piss annoying bars here a while back. But now there’s hunners of micro distilleries cropping up (think over 200 in Scotland alone), plus the usual big boys chancing at playing artisanal with branding. Never heard the term “well drink” before.

*ahem, turns out it’s made by Grant’s, who make Glenfiddich, Tullamore Dew etc, so not small time at all, but they have been doing this since 99, when gin was neither profitable nor popular

[San Bernardhinault]

Well drink is an Americanism. It always seemed weird to me.

But I think a lot of this is at cross purposes. AB’s Zubrowka isn’t the same as most premium vodkas, the ones being mocked. Premium vodkas in this context are the invented brands like Grey Goose. That kind of vodka is basically designed to taste of nothing, so a premium version is laughable. Zubrowka is designed to taste of bison grass, to actually have flavor: it is a premium product.

Premium gin - because basically anyone can make it by throwing a few botanicals in their distillate alcohol and it needs no aging - is often premium for being small batch rather than for being notably better than, say, Tanqueray.

Premium rum can be all kinds of things, from the 7 year aged Bacardi you see behind most bars to some heavily barrel aged, single estate stuff that is more reminiscent of a good single malt scotch with all the subtleties that brings. Rum is fascinating, actually. I keep meaning to drink more and understand it better.

[Lang Spoon]

A laudable aim, SB.

[hobbes]

For the record, the best gin I've ever tasted (and I was drinking gin and tonics while you were at your mother's teat) is Brecon Gin from the Penderyn Distillery. Make sure you get the reserve not the Brecon Botanicals though. That ones a bit cloying.

CopperHead and Silent Pool are dignified runners up.

[MsD]

Personal fave rum is Appleton’s, but I’ve not had that many.

I’ve tried a lot of gins (in the name of research) and currently have a bottle of Blooms in the fridge. Gorgeous bottle and nice flowery taste. Fevertree tonic is my favourite.

A friend gave me a Sipsmith hot gin set for Christmas, with tonic cordial. It does work in the winter but a cold g&t is the best.

[Toby Gymshorts]

Earworm.

[Lang Spoon]

That’s fuckin horrible. Like gin.

[Hot Pepsi]

Well drink is an Americanism. It always seemed weird to me.

IIRC, it’s because the kinda trough looking thing on the backside of a a bar is called a well, and that’s where the cheap booze is stored. It’s easier for the bartenders to get to it there and patrons don’t see the labels, if it has any. The nicer stuff is on the wall behind the bartenders to display it.

Well drinks are usually standard cocktails or highballs.

Cocktails are largely an American invention, taking off during prohibition because amateur booze - especially gin - was both potent and often nasty, so it needed to be diluted.

I don’t know what cocktails are like in Europe.

[Sam]

If any of you get the chance to try Principe de los Apóstoles gin, do. Argentine stuff, yerba mate-flavoured gin. It's available from The Whisky Exchange in the UK, so I assume it's gettable in the States as well. I took a bottle for my parents last time I went home and they at first went, 'Argentine gin? Thanks ...', then opened it out of politeness while I was on the train back from Bristol the following afternoon and I got home to them asking, 'Do you think you can get your girlfriend to bring another bottle or two of this down when she arrives?' (she headed over two weeks after me). Fortunately that had been the plan all along.

[Vicarious Thrillseeker]

Any spirit that you're adding 75% of the total volume to in order to drink it - it's not worth spending over $10. You're not tasting it anyway - get a decent mixer.

A close friend has just set up a gin factory in Nairobi - Procera Gin. He has chosen gin because he can take any white, flavourless spirit base, add botanicals to it and call it gin - there is no 'age' classification, compared with premium, distilled and aged whiskies and rums. Premium gin is a con, unless you're drinking it neat or in Martinis. Aged, smaller estate rums from central America and the Caribbean is currently where it's at for me - better value than whisky or whiskey, and beautifully complex.

IMHO obvs.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Prosecco-mania is fast reaching fanatical levels. I even bought some Prosecco-favoured nail polish at Xmas (not for me… Was persuaded to buy it, as a present). What next, a Prosecco cult? It’ll soon fizz out.

[ursus arctos]

Reed is spot on with the etymology of “well brands”. Similarly, “top shelf” brands grow their cachet from being most ostentatiously displayed. I always thought that UK pubs and clubs had similar “house brands” of the likes of gin, vodka and bourbon, perhaps only the terminology is different.

Sam, I have indeed seen Apostoles here but thought the yerba mate flavoring was a gimmick. It actually works?

[Moonlight Shadow]

Penderyin Single Malt is very nice too.

That Argentinian gin seems lush, I like mate quite a lot...I might bring back a bottle of Swiss gin next time, infused with edelweiss....

[ad hoc]

Reed is spot on with the etymology of “well brands”. Similarly, “top shelf” brands grow their cachet from being most ostentatiously displayed. I always thought that UK pubs and clubs had similar “house brands” of the likes of gin, vodka and bourbon, perhaps only the terminology is different.

I think it's the Isabel Allende-esque "House Spirits". EIM will know

[Pérou Flaquettes]

Re the Champagne debate on here, it chimes what I’ve found in real life (in England): it has become a Marmite sort of topic.

I’ve never really been into Champagne, I’ve always found it overrated compared to the alternatives. That said, Reims is very pleasant and well worth a day visit from Paris (take a TGV, not a TER train, only 40 mns by TGV), plenty of lovely Art Deco architecture (architecture walks in English in the summer) and big Champagne houses like Taittinger have short English-speaking tours of the underground chalk cellars + tasting. I’ve never been on one mind but apparently they’re well worth the money, good value at ~€17, more for the Veuve Clicquot tours bien sûr, darling.

Some of my French relatives order their Champs directly from producers in the Champagne area at €25+ a bottle (God knows why, they’re not even wine buffs, but never mind) and, call me a philistine if you will, it tastes no better than some Crémants, Touraine mousseux (eg Vouvray) or Blanquette de Limoux at roughly a quarter of that price (in France). I find that a lot of Crémants and Touraine mousseux, Cava and other sparkling wines from Spain-Italy-Australia provide excellent alternatives to Champagne at much lower prices, some of them would even wipe the floor with mid-range Champagne pound for pound, an excellent cheapo Australian Seaview I recently had springs to mind here.

But I suppose that when you’re a Champagne producer and have paid an average €1 million/hectare , it’s difficult to compete on price.

(2013) Champagne : l’hectare dépasse le million d’euros

Ditto many Bordeaux and Burgundy wines, far too expensive for what they are but land price inflation has been huge in the last two decades (foreign/Chinese investments, huge demand etc.), reaching stratospheric levels in places, Bourgogne : jusqu’à 9,5 millions d’euros par hectare.

[ursus arctos]

I've been on a number of those tours of champagne cellars and recommend them (though you really only need to do one).

I'd also recommend the Avenue de Champagne in Epernay (35 minutes or so from Reims by train on a line that traverses a large regional park).

Those land prices are insane.

[Walt Flanagans Dog]

Gin also seems very much on the up too, though I haven't bothered looking up any statistics to back that up.

Statistics looked me up instead, in the unlikely place of the Popbitch mailout.

UK gin sales in 2017 were 51 million bottles, up from approx. 41.5 million in 2016. A 23% year on year increase for a long established product is quite something.

[Pérou Flaquettes]

I've been on a number of those tours of champagne cellars and recommend them (though you really only need to do one).

I'd also recommend the Avenue de Champagne in Epernay (35 minutes or so from Reims by train on a line that traverses a large regional park).

Those land prices are insane.

We won't need to go to the Champagne area just for that soon, we'll be able to go on those tours here.

Taittinger Champagne plants first vines in Kent

[anton pulisov]

I'll have to find time to visit that Barron Rouge