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  1. #26
    Rogin the Armchair fan's Avatar
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    Ray Wilkins getting sent off for dissent in 1986 against Morocco. Never seen the like of that decision in a big match before or since (even though imp will say it was correct).

  2. #27
    Gangster Octopus's Avatar
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    Yeah, but how did it impact on Germany/West Germany?

  3. #28
    Rogin the Armchair fan's Avatar
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    If we'd have won that match we'd have played them in the last 16. And avoided Argentina until the final (although France would have stuffed us in the semis).

  4. #29
    Gangster Octopus's Avatar
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    Scandal!

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogin the Armchair fan View Post
    Ray Wilkins getting sent off for dissent in 1986 against Morocco. Never seen the like of that decision in a big match before or since (even though imp will say it was correct).
    He threw the ball on to the ground, didn't he? There's no guarantee that England would have won that game with 11 men though. As I remember it, England were really toothless.

    And, since GO asked, how would it have affected Germany? Well, they'd have met England in the second round (you're welcome, GO). Much as I object to Rogin's certainty that England would have reached the semi-final... yeah, I reckon England might have won that tie. Or lost on penalties, obviously.

  6. #31
    Jah Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anorak Smith View Post
    Willie Johnston getting sent home in 1978 due to a failed drugs test. I didn't even know that was a thing at that point, and he was a bit of a hero of mine at the time, playing left wing at West Brom, so I got quite a bit of stick at school over it.
    As I recall, 'Don't take the piss out of Willie Johnston!' was scrawled by some wag on a local billboard version of that Scotland World Cup Chrysler ad a few days after the event.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man View Post
    Anyway, I was hoping this thread might raise other examples of controversies and scandals.
    Yet here we are.

  7. #32
    jwdd27's Avatar
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    The 24 team, 2 points for a win format of 1986 meant that there were very fine margins in terms of qualification for the R16. It's difficult to judge how much a different result in the second group game would have affected things. With Wilkins' suspension, Robson's injury and no goals in 2 games, Bobby Robson was pretty much forced to go balls to the wall, with 3 new midfielders and Beardsley's craft replacing Hateley's bulk.
    If he'd had a win and a draw in the bag already, he'd have surely been more conservative against Poland, as with 3 points apiece they were both practically guaranteed qualification.

    The 3rd place table would also have changed,

    Wilkins' red card had a butterfly effect rather than being an outright scandal.

  8. #33
    Presuming that England would have won with him not sent off. But even in that event, England would have had to beat Poland to be sure of going through. Assuming a 1-0 win over Moricco (who were no jokes; they went on to beat Portugal who had beaten England), after two games the table would have been:

    Poland 1-0 3pts
    Portugal 1-1 2pts
    England 1-1 2pts
    Morocco 0-1 1pts

    A draw for England could have then seen them knocked out if Portugal or Morocco won, or even had a higher-scoring draw than England. Robson would still have had to go for a win.

    And that is assuming that the red card deprived England of a win.

  9. #34
    Jah Womble's Avatar
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    England were achieving very little before that red card, if we're honest.

  10. #35
    Sam's Avatar
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    West Germany 1-0 Austria in that same World Cup caused a bit of a fuss, didn't it? I wasn't alive at the time though, so someone else will have to nominate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ad hoc View Post
    Well there was Neuer's Schumacher-Battiston (brief reprise) on Higuain
    I've always said I can just about see some justification for not giving Argentina a penalty for that (I can see a justification for giving it to them as well, mind). But what I've never understood is how the referee decided that Higuaín deserved a yellow card and Neuer a free kick for it.

  11. #36
    Jah Womble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    West Germany 1-0 Austria in that same World Cup caused a bit of a fuss, didn't it? I wasn't alive at the time though, so someone else will have to nominate it.
    G-Man mentions it in his opening post.

    How either stayed in the tournament following that, I will never understand.

  12. #37
    Well, they did nothing illegal so there was no mechanism by which to eject them. But there were serious calls in Germany for pulling the team out of the World Cup. The German commentator, Eberhard Stanjek, refused to commentate after a while, and the studio presenter was quite aghast at what he had seen. To this day, German football is embarrassed about that game.

    I was angry watching the game, at least in the second half. It's often said that the teams stopped playing once Hrubesch scored the 1-0 in the 8th minute. But I think it was a decent enough game until just before half-time, with West-Germany creating a few chances (not that I am inclined to ever test my memory by watching that game).

    Poor Pierre Littbarski, still only 21 and inexperienced, didn't get the memo, so he kept making runs and tried to make things happen. The older hands must have been quite amused by it. I still resent the senior players -- Breitner, Rummenigge, Kaltz, Stielike, Magath -- for presiding over this farce. Austria's Walter Schachner later said that some of the senior players from both sides colluded to keep the score as it was.

    What I didn't get then and still don't understand is why they made it so obvious. Make runs, shoot at goal but miss, win corners... at least fucking run! Don't advertise your duplicity.

  13. #38
    Satchmo Distel's Avatar
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    In 1978 the refs were bent in favour of Argentina pretty much all the way through (the hosts' games v Hungary and France, for example). But I think the video of Argentina v Peru shows the Peruvians genuinely trying in the first half then getting overwhelmed in the second.

    The scandal of 1966 was the refs allowing Pele to be fouled out of the tournament and Nobby Stiles to kick people at will. Jonathan Wilson has a good analysis of the Rattin sending off.

    1986 - no real sympathy for England given how Terry Fenwick should have been sent off several times.

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