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    Tony Collins-first black league manager

    “We are aware that some eyebrows will be raised because of his colour but that made no difference and we sincerely hope it will make no difference in his career as a manager.”

    Rochdale’s Tony Collins who took them to the League Cup Final

    #2
    Strange that there's no photo of him to accompany the article

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      #3

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        #4
        Fascinating. As a Norwich supporter, the 1962 League Cup final remains a known landmark in club history – the first major silverware, and one of only two won in total (along with the much better-known 1985 League Cup) – but that long-ago triumph is always accompanied by the caveat that it was from the early days of the competition, when there was a two-legged final and no Wembley showpiece. Ergo there was little coverage, a creeping suspicion that the cup was lightly-regarded at the time, and it's from an era of Canaries history I'm otherwise only vaguely aware of. So I've certainly never heard of this remarkable fact about the Rochdale manager that day being the first black boss of a cup-final side in England, which definitely ought to be better known, and indeed I've never knowingly heard of Tony Collins full stop until right now. Thanks for sharing Nef.

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          #5
          Thanks for that. I was completely unaware of Tony Collins.

          Quick quiz question. Can you spot the mistake in the article? (Without looking at the comments because some know-it-all has already pointed it out).

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            #6
            Is it FA Cup not League Cup 1967?

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              #7
              Hahah, I've just looked at the comment(s) and realised who "some know-it-all" is

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                #8
                Similar article on Collins from the Torygraph in 2016, includes photos and a truer account of the Gullit scouting mission:
                http://bit.ly/2HqGMyl

                Reading around that article, I learned that Eric Dier is Ted Croker's grandson (Collins played with Ted's brother Peter at Watford).

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                  #9
                  Lovely piece Jwdd27. thanks

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                    #10
                    Interesting comments from his daughter:

                    But Sarita says her dad, now 90 and living in Moston, doesn’t believe race held him back - citing his 50-year career. She said: “He doesn’t feel it was an issue, but from my perspective I feel he could’ve had more opportunities as a player and a manager.

                    “He wrote off to 13 other clubs when he resigned at Rochdale but never got anywhere with them.

                    “He had achieved things on a really limited budget with Rochdale, but nothing materialised.

                    “He also had a trial for England as a player and if you asked my dad about it he said he didn’t play very well, that he wasn’t good enough, but the newspapers said the selectors must have been impressed.

                    “He never feels it was a problem or that it defines who he is. If you read Ian Wright’s book it talks about how terrible racial prejudice was, but my dad feels his contribution to football was far more than that.”

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                      #11
                      I think Collins' reluctance to suggest he suffered from racism is partly his generation's stoicism, born of wartime service, keeping one's mouth shut and not causing a fuss. He did have a very good, presumably fairly lucrative post-Rochdale career with Bristol City and then as Revie's chief spy and Man United cheif scout, which reads like not much to complain about.

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                        #12
                        Fair point. It's complicated by the fact that he could possibly pass as a darker skinned white person rather than someone who looked like Cyrille Regis, say.

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                          #13
                          Freddie Ratcliffe, for whom the pub at Spotland is named and without whom there might not even be a football club in Rochdale any more, let alone a pub has always been known around these parts as Mr Rochdale. It would be nice to think that his place in wider football history, earned through giving a bloke a job on account of him being the best candidate available, was down to him being a man ahead of his time, a paragon of progressive values. The reality I guess is somewhat more prosaic.

                          As Satchmo says Collins' 'colour' wasn't exactly striking. Nor (I think, though I'm happy to be corrected) was racism within football as endemic then as it was to become (there weren't enough people of colour in the game for racists to get exercised about). The appointment would certainly have raised more than just eyebrows had the year been 1970 rather than 1960. Still with the town's other claims to fame on race issues being less than commendable it's nice for us (and by us I mean that small number of Daleys who don't cling to the belief that the only reason there aren't more black managers in the game is because, like Paul Ince (it's always Paul Ince) there are none who are good enough) to have something else to be proud of.

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                            #14
                            Sorry to trivialise things but I'm the only one who gets a "Britains's first black vet. What?!" earworm every time they see this thread, aren't I?

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Various Artist View Post
                              Fascinating. As a Norwich supporter, the 1962 League Cup final remains a known landmark in club history – the first major silverware, and one of only two won in total (along with the much better-known 1985 League Cup) – but that long-ago triumph is always accompanied by the caveat that it was from the early days of the competition, when there was a two-legged final and no Wembley showpiece. Ergo there was little coverage, a creeping suspicion that the cup was lightly-regarded at the time, and it's from an era of Canaries history I'm otherwise only vaguely aware of. So I've certainly never heard of this remarkable fact about the Rochdale manager that day being the first black boss of a cup-final side in England, which definitely ought to be better known, and indeed I've never knowingly heard of Tony Collins full stop until right now. Thanks for sharing Nef.
                              I never knew this either about Tony Collins despite the fact I am well aware of our League Cup win in 62, so I took a further look. I am fortunate enough to have the programme for the second leg at Carrow Road (all the semi final and final progs are worth hundreds of pounds apiece, although this one is damaged enough to be worth a lot less...) and the info inside is very brief. Programmes at that time did not give a great deal of background to the fixture, so there is certainly, as you'd probably expect, no mention of Collins breaking down any barriers at that time. What it does mention though is that he'd previously been at Carrow Road as a player and it speaks very fondly of him, not only as a team member, but as a person as well.

                              Anyway, it turns out from one of our club history books (and I cannot see anything mentioned in the article) that he played 31 games for Norwich over two seasons and scored two goals. He was referred to as "Darkie" by his City team mates, but there is no further background to the player apart from his career stats. One wonders if he was our first black player too, long before Johnny Miller and Justin Fashanu made inroads.

                              Sadly, there is very little footage of the two legged final, with a few snippets from Carrow Road and absolutely none from Spotland.
                              The film was either wiped or just not bothered with in the first place.

                              Comment


                                #16
                                That's fascinating, Arturo – firstly that you have the programme (how did you end up with that, may I ask?), and secondly to learn that Collins was an ex-Canary. My first thought was to go to Flown From The Nest and see if there's any mention of his history there, but alas not only does he not have a page but he's not even on the list of players about whom the webmaster is searching for more information.

                                For some reason I hadn't thought to look him up on Wikipedia before, though, and there indeed is (broadly) the same information: 29 apps, 2 gls, 1953-55. There's a particularly good article in Newsweek about him linked from there, and another good one in the Telegraph. There's BBC and ITV pieces on him too from when the book came out a couple of years ago.

                                Comment


                                  #17
                                  A damaged copy of the programme came up on eBay at a hugely reduced price a couple of years ago. Being a bit more flush than I am now, I decided to invest. A good copy goes for around £300-500, but I was miles away from that kind of cash. It's a bit of a state, but I love it and I still think it was a bargain.

                                  If you want the away semi final leg (v Blackpool) and away final leg, they range from around £500-£1000. The home semi final leg can be bought for under £50 now.

                                  Anyway, back to the thread subject and I am surprised that the normally reliable Flown from the Nest does not have more information on Collins. When I head back to Norwich soon to pick up some more of my stuff, I'll see if the other publications I have got contain some more information. I suspect the odd match programme in recent years would have picked up on the subject, but I have got rid of most of these now.

                                  Comment

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