Lobster Boy (was: This Jordan Peterson Guy)

[Lang Spoon]

In what way is Peterson "left-of-centre"? Is not being a Nazi enough to be classed as left-of-centre these days?

Yeah, at best he’s the kind of bore who’d tag themselves “classical liberal”. He’s an effin Tory. There is conservative philosophy to be engaged with, but not this pop bs with its ridiculous memes and diagrams.

[Lang Spoon]

Oh and he believes in cultural universals myths. I mean ffs. We can empirically show that to be bullshit.this is good on why he is a chancer.


https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.psyc...-meaning%3famp

[Lang Spoon]

Milo is at the least a fellow traveler. I don’t think he believes in anything but again, that doesn’t matter. He openly courts the 4chan worst of the “alt-right”, he is a part of it, it’s fuckin fascism.

That’s also a very one sided reading of what was going on with his Uni visits.

[Nefertiti2]

he is literally a nazi, yes

or perhaps in brunoworld it could just happen to any attention seeking contrarian to accidentally sing patriotic songs to Nazis as they give Hitler salutes.

[Nefertiti2]

There's more detail here if you can bear to read it

[Lang Spoon]

Yep maybe, but there are NO cultural universals. Afterlife, Father and Son mythos figures, are in no way common to mankind, myth and religion as the basis for morality, it’s just windy bollocks and cherry picking. And the utter shamelessness of his cod Nietzsche idea that The Heroic Individual is the bullwark against totalitarianism of “the community”, utter utter rot. Maybe he has produced valuable work in psychology, but his understanding of philosophy, politics, comparative religion, load of shite.

[ad hoc]

How much "benefit of the doubt" are we supposed to give people? There really doesn't seem to be that much doubt

[Lang Spoon]

Engaging and reasoning with these fuckers is pointless. Shame the secret nazis, publish their personal details, make their lives as miserable as possible. When they try to organize openly, beat the living shite out of them. Don’t waste your tongue on Nazis.

[ad hoc]

As far as I can tell Peterson is playing a very dodgy game of playing up to far right tropes presumably because he enjoys the fame/notoriety (and the money that it brings in). He (Peterson) may not actually be on the extreme right but I don't think that makes it all alright

[Lang Spoon]

If every toad/frog avatar anonymous Twitter fuck was outed, I hope they will enjoy the rest of their lives jobless and pariahs with friends and family (except for those who would get backslapped of course)

[Lang Spoon]

As far as I can tell Peterson is playing a very dodgy game of playing up to far right tropes presumably because he enjoys the fame/notoriety (and the money that it brings in). He (Peterson) may not actually be on the extreme right but I don't think that makes it all alright

I still can’t decide if I want tickets for him or Rod Liddle Telling it Like It Is. Rock Star Prof!

[San Bernardhinault]

Anyone who uses the terms SJW and virtue signaller as insults is either a far right arsehole, or a complete twat of a troll. Either way, it doesn't reflect well.

[Lang Spoon]

I think he’s perfectly genuine, at least with his Big Book before he got a taste of fame, I just think it’s half baked.not too keen on arguments from authority either.

[San Bernardhinault]

Am I? Who else would whine about SJWs? Only trolls or actual true believers in the alt-right. Although there's a massive crossover between the two groups.

[Nefertiti2]

Pretending it's a joke is in the style guide

The aim is to get acceptance for Nazi ideas. And then for antisemitism and racist murders.

[ad hoc]

OTF hasn't slowed down, still strongly anti-Nazi. ad hoc it depends what you're referring to for giving the benefit of doubt. I give Peterson the benefit of doubt that he's not an outright huckster or a Nazi.

I meant give Milo the benefit of the doubt (which you were apparently asking us to do). Peterson I think there is doubt over. I suspect he's not a nazi, but I think those people who play the far right game, tend to end up believing it. (In their own way I think both Viktor Orbán and Benjamin Netanyahu to name two current figures started out as racists of convenience... and after a time just turned into actual racists

[ad hoc]

He's not as left as most college profs and is in a predictable shit storm as a result.

By the way this is utter bollocks. He's not in a shit storm because he somehow broke some kind of lecturer code. He's in a shit storm because he's making common cause with the far right.

(let's also let go of the idea that he is remotely on the left)

[Nefertiti2]

In the end- as ad hoc says- it doesn't really matter whether populists really believe it, or just make use of it. In the end they go where the hate takes them. They like that little frisson of power from havibg the abilty to sick their followers onto people - as Peterson said.

the smart thing about pretending it's ajoke is that everything can be denied at the same time as it's being unleashed. No-one can tell the line between out and out neo-nazi, angry alt right sympathiser, useful troll, would be intellectual who enjoys arguing the contrarian position. But they are all doing the devils' work.

[Lang Spoon]

I wish I could see much evidence of this Extreme Left in the US or anywhere. If Trump was a competent authoritarian we’d be halfway to Orban world already. The far right and their money suppliers are now in and have the ear of Govt. I think we are right to be scared. And the left is right to organize and demonstrate, and shout down, and break bones if necessary. This is not the time for mealy mouthed everyone should get a fair hearing stuff. There is no reasoning with this bullshit, it has to be faced down.

[Nefertiti2]

I'm not asking anyone to give Milo the benefit of doubt, as that would suggest I care about him. I don't assume he's an actual Nazi. If he is, he is. A lot of hay has been made about neo-Nazis lately but I don't think they're remotely the left's or this country's most urgent political problem.

I do think that we're in a moment where the left has been undermining its own cause through rhetorical overreach and its own brand of intolerance. I see that as an inevitable outcome of polarization and I blame the right for it. A more extreme right creates a more extreme left, hence I think bridge-building is more valuable than ever right now. Unless it's futile, in which case things will get worse before they get better, and maybe much worse.

They're pretty bad. Kids are getting shot in schools and being defended by the right. Black people are being blown up in Austin. An avowed racist and White supremacist was until recently the adviser of the President of the United States. whilt in Hungary the leader makes anti semitic speeches and journalists are mudered in Slovakia, to say nothing of russia.

What kind of bridges do you want to build, and with whom? i'll build bridges with any democrat with a small (d) who wants to defend democracy and enlightenment values. But I'm not building a bridge with the fascist right. Fuck em. and Fuck anyone who defends them.

[Lang Spoon]

Liberal does not equal Left.

[Lang Spoon]

Trump in the election debates gave Canada and Scotland as examples of healthcare systems he would like to emulate. He might even have been sincere as well, but couldn’t really give a fuck if death to Obamacare doesn’t issue in Single Payer.

[Lang Spoon]

Yes, to the barricades. I don't think it will work.

There are folk who full time work to stop Nazis gathering in UK pubs or the like. First by contacting the pubs, then counter demonstrating if the fucks do gather somewhere, then smashing heads if they don’t fuck off with shame. And it works. A thousand tiny battles. Marginalize the bastards, I don’t care how old they are. You cross a line, you pay.

[ad hoc]

"Engaging with the far right" gave us a huge platform for Farage and ultimately Brexit. "Engaging with the far right" gave us Trump. Engaging with the far right does the opposite of what we all would like

[Lang Spoon]

This. That’s why we have that idiot Paul Mason talking up immigration as a Bad Thing for jobs and cohesion. Was bad enough when fucking John Harris was playing that card from Labour’s Sensible wing. If people’s Serious Concerns are total bollocks, don’t indulge them.