Lobster Boy (was: This Jordan Peterson Guy)

[ad hoc]

I don't think you're an idiot. I think you're a bit odd and I think you're barking up the wrong tree (or in fact barking at a daisy when right behind you is a massive forest)

Let's take Hungary which is a situation I'm fairly familiar with. There is an anti semitic anti Muslim "pureblood" government led by a man with a serious inferiority complex, which closes down opposition media, which attacks NGOs and civil society in general. At present they have not formed a jackbooted militia.

Does it really matter if they are not exactly the same as Mussolini's Fasci di combattimento? Isn't it more important that we try and oppose them than worry about what name is best? If I call the government Orbánist can we move on from terminology and start opposing?

[Lang Spoon]

A full on trump nominee packed majority in the Supreme Court (and the age profile of the not horrible justices isn’t great) and you can forget about the survival of checks and balances anyways. The Inperial Presidency it is. Nixon’s great dream.

[Lang Spoon]

Jobbik are the Nazis there, yes. But now (most certainly through cynical expediency rather than seeing the light), they appear further left than Orban’s mob in Govt. No need or space to be full on Nazi when Orban has stolen those policies from a position of Govt.

[Nefertiti2]

"heart breaks" the republicans preventing the previous president implementing his selection and then implementing their own looks like something approaching a slow coup to me.

[Lang Spoon]

Bruno, if you haven’t been defending JP for 30+ bleedin pages, you’ve been very Pontius Partridge and given him severe benefit of the doubt for his reactionary spiel.

[Lang Spoon]

Ok, Charles Murray as well.

[Lang Spoon]

Yeah I’m overstating it, but you’re fairly handy on the sweeping dismissals yourself. A tendency to accuse everyone of groupthink that you have evolved beyond. This is a spiraling repeating fractal pattern cluster headache of a thread.

[Lang Spoon]

35 pages. There’s a prize giving if we get to fifty faster than the Brexit thread.

[Lang Spoon]

You seemed to agree with JP that post-Modernist Marxism is a thing, and a pernicious thing, even if so slippery it can’t be defined.

Been a lurker like the sad bastard leaning against the wall at a party for years Bruno, but thanks again for avoiding being condescending. Few long threads were dominated so much by one person digging in and varying on a theme so much (actually, most of those threads were like that, but with more Vietnam fireworks).

[Lang Spoon]

I’m just tired Bruno. I don’t think you’re a bad person or believe in bad things. Like the way you dont seem to think fascism is a threat unless it comes wearing jackboots. And authoritarianism isn’t much of a thing. Or your “on the other hand” devil’s advocate defences of JP/Sam Harris ad infinitum. Yeah I’m being snippy but your first post on this thread seemed like baiting us all for groupthink.

[Lang Spoon]

No I didn’t. I don’t think you’re a crank I’m just not sure what you’re getting from this. Doubt anyone is going to shift in the debate.

[Lang Spoon]

Ok, then it’s not really fascism I’m scared off, its populist authoritarianism that keeps the institutions and pantomime of democracy going. History is never a loop of the same. The next bastards will be much smarter than to come with jackboots and paramilitary Hugo Boss uniforms.

[Lang Spoon]

Eg, the Soviet Union and most of the Warsaw Pact weren’t really Totalitarian in operation post Stalin (even after the Breshnev pushback) but yeah, weren’t flowers of liberty.

[EIM]

One's a heavily armed armed group of white supremacists, the other is the Nazi army.

[Lang Spoon]

It’s a big thing among the NRA right to distinguish themselves from goose step mamma style marchers that Bad Adolf put in place gun control as one of his first acts of tyranny. The people with the guns were fairly exclusively the people in uniform. Now the audience baying or just plain stupid are also tooled up like a private army if they want to when not at a rally. And are white.

[Nefertiti2]

I'm not making sweeping dismissals without supporting my position or getting down to specifics.

Of course you’re not.

[Lang Spoon]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ebruenig/...02767076753408

Maybe this is relevant for here and the problem of engaging with the right on honest terms.

[Lang Spoon]

It would only take one disgruntled officer. I was just wondering when people had to turn in their heat. I'm aware of the right-wing line on Hitler and gun control. They're eejits. Hitler's first act of tyranny was probably demanding his nurse give him the other tit.

You are mistaking Hitler with the system that produced Hitler. Shooting him (at least when the going was good for enough Germans) would make a martyr the system could work toward as much as the whole thing crashing down, especially pre war/pre Russian misadventure. Some authoritarian/totalitarian structure would probably have survived. And if anything tightened the crush the saboteurs noose more quickly.

[NickSTFU]

Hitler had babies thrust in his face as well.

It wasn't all about goosestepping storm troopers.

[Nefertiti2]

he loved animals too

https://twitter.com/NotableHistory/status/745239911905693699

[Nefertiti2]

[Nefertiti2]

Georg Elser tried to assassinate Hitler in 1939

[Nefertiti2]

Yes I know.

So why did you post two images on the previous page implying the exact opposite?

[Nefertiti2]

Are those Trump's stormtroopers in that pic? Now I understand.

You're doing that Iceberg icefloe thing again.

The US doesn't call its military "Stormtroopers" so your comparisons are, like, totally invalid.

Jordan Peterson isn't a racist, who plays to the alt-right crowd; he's like an intellectual who makes really valid points.

[Nefertiti2]

Trump and the police

Donald Trump, as president, is making policy by culture war. At times, this has distracted from or even undermined his own administration’s actions (never mind those of Congress). But when it comes to empowering rank-and-file law enforcement officials by weakening oversight of them, the president and his policymakers are in lockstep.

Trump brags about taking the handcuffs off federal immigration agents; an executive order signed the first week of his presidency gave them latitude to arrest and deport any unauthorized immigrant in the US. He jokes to a group of police officers that they should be rougher with subjects; his Department of Justice (led by Jeff Sessions) has moved away from civil rights investigations into local police departments.

But as long as he doesn't call his police "Stormtroopers" everything's cool.