Firminho Racism Allegation

[G-Man]

From my Portuguese lipreading, it looked like Firmino said ‘Você tá louco. Você tá louco. Filho da puta’, which, given what had just happened to him, seemed a quite reasonable response. Whether there were further words hidden from the camera, I don’t know.

Preto/a is often used like brother/sister and negão when referring to a big black guy can be a term of endearment. However, as a white gringo I steer clear of using such terms unless I know the person well. Steveeeeee is correct that the addition of the diminutive can make them demeaning.

"Você tá louco. Você tá louco. Filho da puta" would obviously not be words under dispute because there is no way they can be misheard as a racial pejorative. If the missing word was indeed "negão", which phonetically obviously can be heard as the "N" word, then surely it would not have been intended to be a term of endearment for a big, black man. Not after "Filho da puta". I think the ball is in Firmino's court to explain what he said aftere "Filho da puta" that could be misunderstood as being racist.

[hobbes]

If he indeed said anything after that.

[The Awesome Berbaslug!!!]

yeah. The other thing is that as we learned in both the suarez and terry cases is that you're not even allowed say something that translates as "big black guy" on the pitch even if you are talking to your best friend in a friendly way. You're really just not allowed to make any reference at all to nationality or skin colour whatsoever.

[cantagalo]

I should clarify here that I only mentioned ‘negão’ in answer to Rogin’s question about street slang. I have no evidence that Firmino used the term and think it’s unlikely that he would have done so in that situation.

[G-Man]

If he indeed said anything after that.

Indeed. And I agree with you that no judgment can be made on Firmino until we know what he said, if he said anything. But, equally, Holborn's version of the story deserves a fair hearing, too. And if both are incompatible, what reasonable explanations might exist, if any, to determine that neither of them is lying?

[hobbes]

Well that's why the FA are investigating, surely? We don't know what evidence there is outside what we could see, which was inconclusive, or what's in the referee's report.
It's entirely possible that neither of them are lying. It could have been misheard or misunderstood. I see no reason to doubt Holgate either heard or believes he heard whatever he reported. His reaction was genuine. By the same token, if Firmino denies it and none of the other 3 people within earshot heard it, and there's no video evidence, what would you do? Punish Firmino anyway?
That's why the ref and the FA are doing the right thing investigating. It's a shame the FA are usually so terrible at this sort of thing.

[hobbes]

If it transpires that Holgate was mistaken no blame should attach to him of course.
And it needs to be reiterated publicly that Holgate and Everton and the ref did exactly the right thing. (Well apart from Holgate deliberately shoving Firmino into the hoardings, obviously.)

[G-Man]

Yeah, we are in agreement, most importantly in as far as jumping to conclusions is concerned. I certainly would not propose punishing Firmino unless there is evidence that he indeed said what Holgate claims.

The ideal solution would be that both parties can agree that the incident was predicated on a reasonable misunderstanding. But in absence of that, questions will remain unanswered. Let's hope the FA has become better at investigating such things.

[hobbes]

No action.

“We are completely satisfied that the allegation was made in absolute good faith by Holgate and that there is no suggestion of this being an intentionally false or malicious allegation,” an FA statement confirmed.

“We appreciate that this has been a difficult process for both parties, and would like to express our thanks to Mason Holgate and Roberto Firmino as well as both clubs for their assistance, professionalism and full co-operation during this investigation.”

[hobbes]

Firmino statement:-

“As someone who has experienced racist abuse during my life, I know how damaging and hurtful it can be.

“I would like to place on record, for the avoidance of any doubt, I did not say the word, or a variation of the word, that was claimed and subsequently reported in the media.

“I did not use any language that referenced race. I did not – and would never – reference a person’s skin colour or culture, by means of insult, during a dispute or an argument.”

[Mumpo]

The irony

[Ek weet nie]

Has Holgate made any public statement since? I’d be interested in whether he accepts Firmino’s version.

[Ray de Galles]

I wondered that too at the time of the FA & Firmino’s statements above and again today with the Brewster story.

[hobbes]

The irony

How so?