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    #26
    It’s astonishing quite how militarised Israeli society is, and maybe quite how many fantasies of American Jews are being acted out, in the strangest of ways on Palestinians.

    This haaretz opinion article is also worth reading if only to bring home how much Israel is intent on rewriting the world according to its fantasies. I had no idea for example that commemorating the Nakba was a crime. Israel seems committed not to ending the Occupation, but ending the use of the Phrase “ The Occupied Territories” but if they dont agree a 2-state Solution (& it’s too far gone for that IMO) then ultimately it will have to grant the Palestinians civil rights.

    I Oppose BDS. But It’s Israel’s Democracy, Not the Boycott, That’s Netanyahu’s Real Target
    Only authoritarians fear freedom of expression
    .

    “The travel ban itself – an effort to police dissenting thoughts and the people who think them, especially Palestinians – and the blacklist are just the latest symptoms.
    The larger strategy includes the Boycott Law, passed in 2011, which makes any Israeli who calls for any kind of boycott, including a boycott of settlement products, liable to be sued for damages. (At the time, the Knesset’s legal advisor, Eyal Yinon, said that the law would so severely injure freedom of expression that he considered it “borderline illegal.”)

    It includes the Nakba Law, which allows the government to pull funding from any Arab-Israeli institution that in any way marks the Palestinian narrative of 1948.
    And it includes - through legislation, intimidation and smear campaigns - attempts to silence and delegitimize human and civil rights organizations that defend democracy and oppose the occupation.
    Alongside its legislative strategy, the current government uses incitement, scapegoating and lies to suppress free speech and weaken Israeli democracy even further. Arabs, government watchdogs, independent media, the judiciary and those who defend democracy and equality, including NIF and our grantees, are explicitly singled out and demonized by government officials, including Prime Minister Netanyahu.”
    Last edited by Nefertiti2; 09-01-2018, 16:06.

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      #27
      This is a good (and sad) piece too https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.83...6A4754E3F24AF0

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        #28
        Yes an excellent piece. Thanks. One which I’d agree with more or less word for word. I was thinking just this morning about my Israeli relatives -and the difference between my fathers generation -who remembered the 1947 border and saw the Palestinians as fellow residents of the same piece of earth, and their grandchildren, who saw them as Arabs and enemies. The 2nd intifada has something to do with that, certainly. But also it has to do with racism and the strategic erasure of any narrative which conflicts with the one told in Israel, and by & to their allies in the West.

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          #29
          This is also Interesting, not so much for what it says, but for where it is.

          The New York times has printed a third piece in the last two days criticising Israel recognising that the two state solution is de facto over and the implications of that.

          "Instead, if the possibility of Palestinian statehood is foreclosed, Israel will be responsible for all the territory under its control. There will be one state; the question is what sort of state it will be. Some on the Israeli right foresee a system in which most Palestinians will remain stateless indefinitely, living under a set of laws different from those governing Israeli citizens. Yoav Kish, a Likud member of Parliament, has drawn up a plan in which Palestinians in the West Bank will have limited local administrative sovereignty; rather than citizens they will be “Residents of the Autonomy.” Supporters of Israel hate it when people use the word “apartheid” to describe the country, but we don’t have another term for a political system in which one ethnic group rules over another, confining it to small islands of territory and denying it full political representation.

          The word “apartheid” will become increasingly inescapable as a small but growing number of Palestinians turn from fighting for independence to demanding equal rights in the system they are living under. “If the Israelis insist now on finishing the process of killing the two-state solution, the only alternative we have as Palestinians is one fully democratic, one-state solution,” Barghouti says, in which everyone has “totally equal rights.”

          Needless to say, Israel will accept no such thing. Though demographics in the region are as contested as everything else, Palestinians are likely to soon become a majority of the population in Israel and the occupied territories. If all of them were given the right to vote, Israel would cease to be a Jewish state.

          But most of the world — including most of the Jewish diaspora — will have a hard time coming up with a decent justification for opposing a Palestinian campaign for equal rights. Israel’s apologists will be left mimicking the argument that William F. Buckley once made about the Jim Crow South. In 1957, he asked rhetorically whether the white South was entitled to prevail “politically and culturally, in areas in which it does not predominate numerically.” The “sobering answer,” he concluded, was yes, given the white community’s superior civilization.

          It’s impossible to say how long Israel could sustain such a system. But the dream of liberal Zionism would be dead. Maybe, with the far right in power both here and there, it already is."

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            #30
            Wow, the NYT. Imagine there will be Ructions and Outrage from a lot of readers who don’t want to see what’s at the end of their fork.

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              #31
              Wow indeed.

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                #32
                Thanks for all the articles being shared on here, they are essential reading.

                I'm lost for words about Seinfeld, what an absolute arsehole.

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                  #33
                  He's dropped a few clangers before. Someone asked him, in one of those live Q&A things, about the dearth of black talent appearing on Seinfeld and his response was notably tone-deaf.

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                    #34
                    Can anyone really claim to be surprised by Seinfeld? Such overwhelming smugness and self satisfaction leaves little room for seeing things from the other persons view.

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                      #35
                      I think your Wrongness on Seinfeld the sitcom is already well established, Berba.

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                        #36
                        But yeah he’s an awful cunt in that show, but that doesn’t really matter. The stand up book ends are some of the worst things I’ve ever seen but. He’s better as a bad actor playing an exaggerated version of his outstanding personality than as an actual comic by the look of that shite.

                        I love that Jerry’s bezzy mate is stunningly repellent (maybe the only way such a stunning arsehole as Seinfeld could have become the No 1 sitcom star was to have such a shitheel as Larry David’s id as his foil). And Elaine isn’t much better either.

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                          #37
                          Seinfeld isn't just smug and self-satisfied in the show though. he's like that in his other public appearances too.

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                            #38
                            Op ed by Hagai El-Ad (director of B'Tselem) https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.pre...D3BB707A8241F0

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                              #39
                              If a paper like the NYT starts taking such a position how long before it becomes more viable politically for an actual candidate to follow (in US politics)?

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                                #40
                                At least for the foreseeable future it would have to be a Jewish candidate. Bernie is the only candidate in my lifetime who has shown any inclination to express any nuance or concern for the Palestinian side of the story. Elizabeth Warren, for example, is awful on Palestinian issues.

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                                  #41
                                  Surprisingly good answer on Ahed Tamimi by UK government minister (yes, this government) in parliament yesterday https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20...uldnt-be-there

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                                    #42
                                    That is a good statement by Alastair Burt. Our Foreign Secretary the loathsome Boris Johnson has suggested Jerusalem should be the joit capital of Israeland Palestine

                                    meanwhile the Israelis are showing their commitment to peace and negotiation

                                    Minister Uri Ariel said Wednesday that there needs to be more dead and wounded Palestinians in Israel's attacks on the Gaza Strip.

                                    Speaking on Reshet Bet radio, the agriculture and rural development minister said that in the recent months the Israeli army has attacks on the coastal enclave, but "no deaths or injuries" were reported among the “Palestinians, terrorists.”






                                    He asked, “What is this special weapon we have that we fire and see pillars of smoke and fire, but nobody gets hurt? It is time for there to be injuries and deaths as well,” he said.

                                    Ariel called on Defense Minister Avigdor Lieberman to employ the “carrot and stick” method he had spoken about in August 2016 regarding the Palestinians in the West Bank – to banish the families of terrorists and demolish their homes. “We will implement a differential policy in [the West Bank],” Lieberman said at the time. “Its purpose is to continue to give benefits to those who desire coexistence with us, and make life difficult for those who seek to harm Jews.”

                                    Netanyahu's son's night out with is worth a read

                                    Netanyahu: You’re crying over 400 shekels, my father arranged 20 billion dollars for your father and you’re crying over 400 shekels for me [for a prostitute], you son of a bitch.

                                    Abramov: I don’t want this conversation getting out, God help us. God, if this gets out...

                                    5

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                                      #43
                                      Gideon Levy's latest

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                                        #44
                                        Good article by Hagai El-Ad on the growing authoritarianism in Israel itself (and in other nominal democracies such as Hungary, Turkey, India etc)

                                        http://sur.conectas.org/en/the-one-s...ant-exception/

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                                          #45
                                          @Nef- isn't there a growing consensus among younger Palestinian activists that the 2-state option has gone and that their future strategy is to regroup in and perhaps eventually influence Israel? Maybe even some parallels with 'tick-tock' where Nationalists in NI have waited decades for demographic change)?

                                          @Ad Hoc- one of the EU's weaknesses is that it won't/ can't expel Hungary. I knew Orban was an open racist obsessed by football but that Graun story you posted suggested he's only marginally less pre-senile than Trump. Sitting in a nappy in his vanity stadium watching 6 matches a day while underlings get the poor to vote for tax slashes for oligarchs and their own minorities get demonised, let alone anyone else's
                                          Last edited by Duncan Gardner; 15-01-2018, 16:18.

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                                            #46
                                            US withholds 65 million dollars of aid from the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestinians

                                            Only just seen your post Dunc. I don't know what the mood in Palestine is, but I don't know any one believes inthe two state solution any more. The hard line Israelis call the Occupied Territories "Judaea and Samaria". and claim the same biblical right to them as they do to the rest of Palestine. Most people I know who have visited Palestine ( i haven't) see the areas as unviable Bantustans and don't believe the Israelis will ever offer the independence required.

                                            There has been a change in talking about both Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and without as "Palestinians". The issue is whether the citzines in the Occupied Territories are ever get civil rights. Sooner or later they must. But "Later" might be a long time. And yes demographics will play a part in that.
                                            Last edited by Nefertiti2; 16-01-2018, 20:37.

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                                              #47
                                              Thread about the implications of the withholding of funds from Palestine by journalist julia McFarlane (eith pictures)

                                              Some Quotes

                                              "UNRWA is literally the only thing between tens of thousands of the most vulnerable Palestinians and death. Whether that’s from starvation, ongoing illness or critical medical care."

                                              'Playing hardball diplomacy by withholding aid is not just a move that exists in the political world. This has a direct impact to so many who rely on UNRWA.Like this girl covered in 3rd degree burns in Gaza whose father had no money to pay for her operations."

                                              "t is so, so hard to move the international community to act on this. Most of the funds promised after the last Gaza war have not been paid. Editors don’t like to commission articles because of “Palestine fatigue”. Palestinians are among the most forgotten and neglected peoples"

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                                                #48
                                                Originally posted by Nefertiti2 View Post
                                                There has been a change in talking about both Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and without as "Palestinians".
                                                Israeli-citizen Palestinians tend to resent being called "Arabs of Israel". Call them Arab and they are likely to issue a correction, emphasising that they are Palestinians. Whatever their ID documents or colour of licence plates, they are one people and see themselves as such.

                                                The two-state solution is indeed dead. I guess the Palestinian leadership, including the Christians who exercise some influence in Europe, still propose it as a strategy rather than as an end itself. But nobody thinks it's possible. Of course, negotiations for an inclusive democratic and secular state are going to littered with huge obstacles. Leaving aside the problem of selling a peace deal to a reluctant Israeli public, Israel's status as a refuge for anti-Semitic persecution will have to be assured. And then there is the question of the Right to Return, and restitution for private land confiscated in the West Bank for settlements.

                                                The two-state solution would have been the cleaner option. But, short of removing the settlers (with the attendant consequences for Israel), it's a non-option. And even a two-state peace-deal that removes the settlers would leave open the Right to Return question.

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                                                  #49
                                                  Thanks Nef. I haven't been back to Palestine since 1976. Part of me fancies a nostalgic holiday, but I just wouldn't feel comfortable in Israel.

                                                  BBC screened a (possibly allegorical) doc last week. The Hasidic community in Stamford Hill, North London are moving en masse because of high rents. To Canvey Island, which the director reminded us is very white and UKIP as well as cheaper. They were welcomed by local hotelier Chris who also manages veteran rockers Dr Feelgood. The boys then serenaded their Kosher guests with 'Milk and Alcohol'

                                                  https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...romised-island

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                                                    #50
                                                    Judge orders Ahed Tamimi to remain in custody until her fake trial because she is "so dangerous" https://www.btselem.org/press_releas..._tamimi_remand

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