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Return of the Lira? Italian general election, 2018

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    No, not even as a joke, or some kite-flying blue sky thinking. I mean if a cabinet minister says that out loud, the EU commission will politely but firmly suggest that they hold a referendum on continued italian membership of the EU.

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      That's why the guys being quoted are assistant undersecretaries and the like.

      This is all theatre for domestic consumption.

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        Have they managed to admit yet that they can't implement three quarters of their election platform?

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          Like I said, you're funny.

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            Originally posted by The Awesome Berbaslug!!! View Post
            Have they managed to admit yet that they can't implement three quarters of their election platform?
            Think Haughey-era FF, and you're getting there.

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              Haughey said on pretty much the first day in 1987, that he was going to implement everything the Coalition said they were going to do, and more.

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                https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-in-racism-row

                Cécile Kyenge, an MEP who had bananas thrown at her and was likened to an orangutan during her time as Italy’s integration minister, is being sued for defamation by the far-right interior minister, Matteo Salvini, for calling his League party racist.

                Kyenge faces trial in the northern city of Piacenza after describing the League as racist during an interview in 2014 at Parma’s festa dell’unità, a social democratic event celebrated across Italy each year. Her comments came in response to a photograph posted on social media by Fabio Rainieri, who at the time was party secretary in the Emilia-Romagna region, depicting her as an orangutan.

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                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                  That's why the guys being quoted are assistant undersecretaries and the like.

                  This is all theatre for domestic consumption.
                  Doesn't announcing a load of stuff you aren't going to do start jarring at some point? It's not like they're going to have the economic growth Trump's got to hide behind.

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                    If Salvini wins it will demonstrate that the justice system in Italy is also racist

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                      Doesn't announcing a load of stuff you aren't going to do start jarring at some point?
                      It's been a constant feature of Italian politics since the War (before which there really weren't popular politics per se).

                      ad hoc, there is already plenty of evidence that the system is profoundly racist, though I do wonder if the Lega will win this entirely symbolic case.

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                        So Berba, if this coalition projects the deficit at 2.4 percent of GDP, where’s your money if the over/under on the real figure is at 4.5?

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                          You know I'd swear that I posted an article about the Italian budget deficit row. I mean Ursus is responding to something. I'm willing to accept that I may have gone mad, but I'm pretty sure that Ursus hasn't gone mad in exactly the same way at exactly the same time. Also I'm pretty sure that I posted about it the other night as well, but I was prepared to accept that I may have just messed it up.

                          Anyway, here's the article.

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                            You put it in Trump thread

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                              haha. too many windows open at the same time. Ooops.

                              Well the story so far is that it's 2.4% but by the time it reaches the actual budget, it will probably be 3%. So christ knows what it will be in reality. Once this puts the wind up the financial markets, then Debt service costs are going to become an exciting problem.

                              It's interesting as well to see the grounds on which the Fascists and the clowns have decided to take on the EU. The two unique things about the Italian pension system are a) its massive share of the economy compared to other European countries (even allowing for Italy's bizarre population pyramid) but b) how staggeringly unfair it is. There must be a big chunk of pensioners who are doing very well indeed out of it, while a great many people are left to struggle.

                              Now b) is a problem that needs to be addressed on simple humanitarian and human decency grounds, but given a) the only vaguely sustainable solution is to reduce the payments at the top end, to bring up the payments at the bottom end, or hammer wealthy pensioners for their savings either through wealth taxes, or inheritance taxes, or simply reducing these pensions. Lowering the pension age, and simply borrowing the money on the assumption that people are just going to keep lending a bankrupt italy more and more money, on the face of it simply seems like a naked appeal to the short term interests of the Old, at the expense of everyone else. However it does allow the Fascists and the Clowns to loudly scream "Hit me now with my child/nonna in my arms" and set up a scenario where they can say to people "We want to give you what you want, but the nasty EU won't let us." And lets face it, surely no-one can be surprised that we've wound up in this position?

                              Maybe the time has come to suggest to Italy that they should consider a referendum on membership of the European Union.

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                                it simply seems like a naked appeal to the short term interests of the Old, at the expense of everyone else
                                So, same as politics everywhere else these last three years.

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                                  Yeah. I'm getting very bored with articles about populism that don't simply point out that the core of its rise is simply promising to give old people stuff, while making things like they were when they were young.

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                                    Except that in the US they basically haven’t gotten any stuff, unless they are in the top 0.5 percent of the income distribution and/or are “farmers” like Chuck Grassley who are cashing in on handouts intended to offset the impact of the new tariffs.

                                    European populists actually have to deliver for their voters, US populists only have to deliver for their donors.

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                                      Yeah, there are a lot of senior citizens in the USA (wo)manning tills at CVS and McDonald's.

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                                        Yeah, but that's because old europeans want to go back to the 1950's, while the Americans want to go back to the 1850's

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                                          "lo Spread" broke 300 basis points today, so this is going swimmingly as expected.

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                                            Does that focus any minds, or is Italy so far gone that being shitted on by international markets is an expression of sovereignty?

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                                              DiMaio's certainly taking it the second way.

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                                                DiMaduro?

                                                Are they going to have a vote on the internet about what Italy should pay?

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                                                  It is very distressing to the business community, but the coalition's "base" is still lapping up the demagogues' demonisation of the "markets".

                                                  The level of basic economic literacy in Italy is even lower than it is in our countries.

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                                                    62% combined for the coalition parties in poll yesterday. So I think you're right.

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