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Return of the Lira? Italian general election, 2018

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    Return of the Lira? Italian general election, 2018

    The March 4th vote could well prove pivotal to the future direction of the European Union, with the political currents on the peninsula flowing in a distinctly Eurosceptical manner. Leading the polls presently is the ever-nebulous Five Star Movement, which doesn't appear to advocate leaving the EU at this time, but has been known to support ditching the euro in favour of the lira (by referendum), abandoning Schengen and sharply curbing immigration. Renzi's Democratic Party follows in second, but the "Third Way" has taken numeroys hammerblows across the continent, and youth unemployment remains unconscionably high. Finally, Berlusconi has somehow restored Forza Italia to third place in recent polls, and allied to Lega and Brothers of Italy, playing the familiar right-wing tunes could see his coalition return to power.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italia...ectoral_system

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinio...election,_2018

    #2
    I had somehow missed this thread.

    I don't agree with every word, but this piece is an interesting overview of how we got to where we are.

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      #3
      Belgium had even worst debt than Italy through to the mid 90s, but did something about it, in the Euro and all.

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        #4
        Which is where all the other systemic dysfunction comes in.

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          #5
          I really don't understand this idea that some people have that the countries of the periphery suffered by joining the Euro, because it prevented them from Devaluing their currency every couple of months. The countries of the periphery all had lower wage levels, transportation costs are minimal, the Euro and the single market grants you an enormous market, and you can borrow for investment for literally nothing. virtually everything made in the EU can be made anywhere in the EU. All you have to do is stop fucking around, crack down on the black economy, formulate effective labour market policies that you can apply to the whole economy, rather than artificial ones that can only be made work if you ignore all the people who have to work outside the system. reform your tax system so it is transparent, easy to comply with, easy to collect, and completely overhaul your civil service, so that you're using it more efficiently, and interacting with it becomes less of a nightmare. But mostly Collect more taxes from rich people, and stop borrowing to fund day to day expenditure. Essentially all of the things that Italy didn't do.

          If you do that, you don't have to devalue your currency. People come to do business in your country because it is properly run on a basic level. For better or worse, Ireland had done all of these structural things before the introduction of the Euro, and being the most peripheral of peripheral countries in europe didn't stop us. I appreciate that there are many exciting reasons why various countries responded differently, but my issue is with the people nostalgic for the good old days of continuous devaluation. Devaluing your currency to resolve problems caused by your primitive clientelist approach to running the economy is a bit like tidying your house by burning it down. People who mention this are talking utter bollocks and have literally no memory or idea of the impact of continuous high inflation on the poorest and most vulnerable in society, and the continual assault on the collective national wealth.
          Last edited by The Awesome Berbaslug!!!; 01-03-2018, 16:28.

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            #6
            You’ve answered your own question there.

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              #7
              Well It's not so much a question as fury when someone drops that into the discussion. You hear it here every now and again from people who aren't keen on Europe, and it gets an airing in Italy. I can understand why someone like Silvio Berlusconi might say something like this, but when people who claim to be on the left start to talk about it, you wonder why they would rather do this than tax rich people a bit more is infuriating.

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                #8
                It’s usually because they also owe their jobs to patronage and/or come from families that don’t pay their taxes

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                  #9
                  Over here? It's more of a poorly thought through Anti-European talking point, that relies on people's familiarity with the tactic, rather than any understanding of the issues involved.

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                    #10
                    Ah no, I’m talking about Italians

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                      #11
                      oh yeah, it's the ultimate "The status quo suits me, but everyone else should change" position that seems to characterize Italian politics. I'd say you could compile quite an interesting list of such defining political characteristics from each european country. Ours would be "give me things and never hurt me."

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                        #12
                        Thread title has roared forth a Mark Morrison earworm. But who's lying to who?

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                          #13
                          https://twitter.com/CasMudde/status/969604540747141121?s=09

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                            #14
                            Bit unfair to Renzi and the PD.

                            But only a bit.
                            Last edited by ursus arctos; 03-03-2018, 01:15.

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                              #15
                              Who are the party represented by Homer?

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                                #16
                                Free and Equal (Italian: Liberi e Uguali, LeU) is a left-wing political alliance of parties in Italy, launched on 3 December 2017 by the Democratic and Progressive Movement, Italian Left and Possible.
                                They are fronted by a respected anti-Mafia campaigner, but have minuscule popular support and have seen their campaign marked by episodes of Homeresque incompetence.

                                As one can note from the badges, many of these "parties" are nothing but electoral vehicles for personal factions led by career politicians. Forza Italia wins the hypocrisy prize for including "Berlusconi Presidente" on its badge notwithstanding the fact that he is legally barred from public office.

                                This is a good piece on Casa Pound (the hooligans with the turtle).

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                                  #17
                                  Originally posted by ursus arctos View Post
                                  Bit unfair to Renzi and the PD.

                                  But only a bit.
                                  How about Rev Lovejoy? Or Marge?

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                                    #18
                                    Both better choices than Flanders.

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                                      #19
                                      Maybe Flanders is Gentiloni?

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                                        #20
                                        He's got the religiosity, but Gentiloni is popular and I struggle to see Flanders has having a long noble lineage

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                                          #21
                                          How do you know? I mean it came as a surprise to everyone that Flanders is nearly 70

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                                            #22
                                            He's certainly popular though. Remember when everyone rebuilt the Flanders' house?

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                                              #23
                                              Homer.

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                                                #24
                                                Oh, and there's Ned's cousin, Lord Thistlewick Flanders, isn't there?

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                                                  #25
                                                  Is he the bloke standing next to Dante?

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